SMSL D1 - ROHM DAC for everyone

[Svend P]

Looks like the Fiio R2R may have a challenger….

In the competition "all DACs sound the same"?

'Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...'

Nov 17, 2020

Hello friend. Hey, listen...we know how it is. Believe me, most of us have been there too. You've spent years toiling in the muck of audiophilia. You read ALL the reviews. You watched ALL the youtube videos. You visited ALL the other forums where everything always makes a difference. You bought the cables and the little bridge thingies for them to sit upon and the benefits were magical. You bought the $1000 IEMs that only truly sang after 250 hours of burn-in. Not 200 hours...or 225 hours, but 250 hours! It must be that for the magic to appear! You converted...

• Sgt. Ear Ache
• Replies: 3,945
• Forum: General Audio Discussions

• 

 

[Holdegron]

Fiio K11 R2R is quite good DAC, but its headphone amplifier sucks.
A better amplifier is in K11 (not R2R).
And DAC's have their sound, the numbers from the measurements do not give a full idea about the sound.

 

[Svend P]

the numbers from the measurements do not give a full idea about the sound.

What is it you think you can hear that can't be measured?

'Master Thread: Are Measurements Everything or Nothing?'

Nov 18, 2020

Seems like so many review threads get challenged with:

1. Measurements are not everything.

2. You all never listen.

3. I trust my ears, not graphs.

4. I don't listen to graphs. I listen to music.

5. You all must not listen to music at all.

6. Why don't you all buy the best SINAD gear?

7. I have heard your best SINAD gear and they sound terrible. I don't like any of this Chinese stuff.

8. You don't trust your ears. I/we do.

9. All these reviewers/youtubers/audophiles say these amps, DACs, etc. sound different and you say they don't. They can't all be wrong.

10. Surely designers...

• amirm
• Replies: 17,256
• Forum: General Audio Discussions

• 

 

[Roland68]

What is it you think you can hear that can't be measured?

'Master Thread: Are Measurements Everything or Nothing?'

Nov 18, 2020

Seems like so many review threads get challenged with:

1. Measurements are not everything.

2. You all never listen.

3. I trust my ears, not graphs.

4. I don't listen to graphs. I listen to music.

5. You all must not listen to music at all.

6. Why don't you all buy the best SINAD gear?

7. I have heard your best SINAD gear and they sound terrible. I don't like any of this Chinese stuff.

8. You don't trust your ears. I/we do.

9. All these reviewers/youtubers/audophiles say these amps, DACs, etc. sound different and you say they don't. They can't all be wrong.

10. Surely designers...

• amirm
• Replies: 17,256
• Forum: General Audio Discussions

• 

It would be nice if you could keep this discussion out of the D1 thread and continue it in the dedicated thread.

There's nothing wrong with D1 owners writing about the device and their experiences. However, I expressly request that you refrain from engaging in fundamental discussions here that have nothing directly to do with the D1, as that would only ruin the thread. There are already enough other threads for that.

 

[Svend P]

It would be nice if you could keep this discussion out of the D1 thread and continue it in the dedicated thread.

There's nothing wrong with D1 owners writing about the device and their experiences. However, I expressly request that you refrain from engaging in fundamental discussions here that have nothing directly to do with the D1, as that would only ruin the thread. There are already enough other threads for that.

I feel this is a somewhat unfair response. @Schlippwhip68 claimed the SMSL D1 probably would sound better than a Fiio R2R . Which is what I reacted to. @Holdegron took it in an even more general direction, but even that is relevant to the D1 as no one has been able to prove DAC's have a different sound.

 

[Holdegron]

My headphone amplifier has two RCA inputs. It's easy to compare two devices.
Such a quick switching gives you the opportunity to catch differences.
These are small differences, I don't deny it.

 

[Roland68]

I feel this is a somewhat unfair response. @Schlippwhip68 claimed the SMSL D1 probably would sound better than a Fiio R2R . Which is what I reacted to. @Holdegron took it in an even more general direction, but even that is relevant to the D1 as no one has been able to prove DAC's have a different sound.

This has absolutely nothing to do with being unfair.
What's unfair is that you're interpreting statements here in such a way that you can start an argument. @Schlippwhip68 only said that "Looks like the Fiio R2R may have a challenger..." and not "claimed the SMSL D1 probably would sound better than a Fiio R2R", and anyone can read that.

And that was just a request to those involved to continue such discussions in the appropriate threads.
That's also what the administration wants, and corresponding posts are repeatedly moved to the appropriate threads with great effort, and threads in which such off-topic discussions degenerate are even temporarily or permanently blocked.
These are precisely the things I want to prevent.

Besides, these things have already been discussed hundreds of times here in the forum. Why should anything different or meaningful come out of it this time?
There are dedicated threads where @Holdegron, @Schlippwhip68, you, and others can discuss such topics if they want to. And if not, that's fine, too.

 

[JSmith]

And DAC's have their sound, the numbers from the measurements do not give a full idea about the sound.

Sorry, I'm with @Svend P. Stop posting this factually incorrect garbage at ASR. Take these comments elsewhere if you can't learn how DAC's work and what the measurements mean. You are completely fooling yourself and thus making yourself look like a fool in the process.

This whole thread is getting out of hand... if anyone is going to claim an audible difference between DAC's that measure well to excellent, then prove it. If it's that obvious that isn't going to be difficult, right? Put your money where your mouth is, or shut it.


JSmith

 

[Holdegron]

Ok, I'm gone.
If you think that numbers will say everything about sound, I feel sorry for you.
Sleep calmly with the conviction that all DAC is the same.

 

[oldpainless]

Sorry, I'm with @Svend P. Stop posting this factually incorrect garbage at ASR. Take these comments elsewhere if you can't learn how DAC's work and what the measurements mean. You are completely fooling yourself and thus making yourself look like a fool in the process.

This whole thread is getting out of hand... if anyone is going to claim an audible difference between DAC's that measure well to excellent, then prove it. If it's that obvious that isn't going to be difficult, right? Put your money where your mouth is, or shut it.


JSmith

You know, I really do know where you are coming from, I do. Transparency or not - if not, then it's broken by design right? Welp, broken or not, what about what the "sound" that someone likes? There's no point me saying anything else, if the only measurement, are the measurements. How does the Dac pair with the amp, speakers, room harmonics? Bright speakers and bright dac - awesome sound right?...not.

By these vey same arguments, my Onkyo C-7030 Gen 1 (Wolfson) should sound crap right? Not a "Perfect" dac.....buy one if you can and give it a listen, then come back and tell us what you found. BTW, here's an assesment/review from a audio "engineer" https://www.amazon.com/review/RZN7NUL44AUKX

The quest for good Hi-Fi is always about more the sum of it's parts, by it's very definition. "can't see the forrest for the trees" is phrase that spings to mind.

 

[Schlippwhip68]

I feel this is a somewhat unfair response. @Schlippwhip68 claimed the SMSL D1 probably would sound better than a Fiio R2R . Which is what I reacted to. @Holdegron took it in an even more general direction, but even that is relevant to the D1 as no one has been able to prove DAC's have a different sound.

Hi
No, I did not say ‘claim’ the D1 would sound better the the R2R. I said …”it may have a challenger….” that is a speculation not a claim. I have not heard the D1 but have owned an Fiio R2R so I cannot and probably would not give an absolute, thankfully, but only a preferential opinion at best which would only be taken with any weight by those whom know me personally on either product.
The reason I chose the R2R is because I feel the Fiio MAYBE the D1’s nearest competitor down to the sound signature of the ROHM chip as relayed in this thread and by others, one of being a more analogue sounding signature than say ESS or AKM chip based products, as said it’s just a speculative wondering and nothing more. Hope that clears things up. I am interested in the D1 as I liked the R2R and may like the sound of the ROHM chip and SMSL’s work. I personally do hear differences in dac chips.

 

[Lord19]

Music lovers. Please share (post here) the firmware for the SMSL D1. There is no firmware on the official website, and the technical support service is not responding. I ordered this device from Aliexpress, and the seller does not have the firmware either.

 

[Blockader]

Hi
No, I did not say ‘claim’ the D1 would sound better the the R2R. I said …”it may have a challenger….” that is a speculation not a claim. I have not heard the D1 but have owned an Fiio R2R so I cannot and probably would not give an absolute, thankfully, but only a preferential opinion at best which would only be taken with any weight by those whom know me personally on either product.
The reason I chose the R2R is because I feel the Fiio MAYBE the D1’s nearest competitor down to the sound signature of the ROHM chip as relayed in this thread and by others, one of being a more analogue sounding signature than say ESS or AKM chip based products, as said it’s just a speculative wondering and nothing more. Hope that clears things up. I am interested in the D1 as I liked the R2R and may like the sound of the ROHM chip and SMSL’s work. I personally do hear differences in dac chips.

With a bit of imagination, anyone can hear differences between dacs in uncontrolled conditions. I hear differences between dacs too. But only blind tests under volume matched, controlled settings can reveal whether those differences are real.

 

[bogi]

I hear differences between dacs too. But only blind tests under volume matched, controlled settings can reveal whether those differences are real.

You see differences between colors too. But only dumb test under light intensity matched, controlled settings can reveal whether those differences are real.

 

[oldpainless]

Good grief, this has to be one of the most toxic forums I've visted/joined - what is it with the superiority complex around here? I'm on AVS, Zidoo, Kodi, and I'd thought I'd seem it all, until now.

Measurments are one thing, how it sounds in the real world environment with your gear, room harmonics, and, your ears are another.

Where are the @mods? This is bullying, and it stops legitimate debate and or conversation.

Don't like the Dac? Don't buy it. Curious around the sound? Ask those that own it.

This is nuts for a forum.

 

[Blockader]

You see differences between colors too. But only dumb test under light intensity matched, controlled settings can reveal whether those differences are real.

Yes, I can see the difference between colors, and when we measure the frequency of the light they emit, the results confirm that they are indeed different. Most dacs have their distortion harmonics below -100db which suggests that it's close to impossible to hear any differences between them, so the problem starts when people think they start hearing differences that seems to impossible to hear, that's when a volume matched double blind test becomes necessary. The measurements suggest there shouldn't be any audible difference, which is exactly why it's important to put those subjective impressions to the test.

 

[Theriverlethe]

Does this DAC still exhibit the auto-standby behavior of the SU-1 and PS200? If so, that’s gonna be a hard pass.

 

[Roland68]

Does this DAC still exhibit the auto-standby behavior of the SU-1 and PS200? If so, that’s gonna be a hard pass.

No, it has never gone into standby on its own for me.
You have to turn it on and off using the touchpad.

It also seems to remember whether it was on or off. If you unplug the power supply, even with USB, it will return to the same state.

 

[Theriverlethe]

Good grief, this has to be one of the most toxic forums I've visted/joined - what is it with the superiority complex around here? I'm on AVS, Zidoo, Kodi, and I'd thought I'd seem it all, until now.

Measurments are one thing, how it sounds in the real world environment with your gear, room harmonics, and, your ears are another.

Where are the @mods? This is bullying, and it stops legitimate debate and or conversation.

Don't like the Dac? Don't buy it. Curious around the sound? Ask those that own it.

This is nuts for a forum.

No, this is pretty mild. Claims like this unsupported by blind tests would get you banned on hydrogenaud.io.

 

[bogi]

Where are the @mods? This is bullying, and it stops legitimate debate and or conversation.

The mods here are doing Uh huh

Search results for query: Uh huh

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