SMSL D-6s Balanced DAC Review

[Jimi Floyd]

Personally, I cannot prove it: I do not claim to have the necessary level such as Bruno Putzeys or the TOPPING engineers who for their part, I have no doubt, are doing research to improve the SQ of devices beyond what is known today and who until now have clearly proven to us that this is indeed possible.

I don't need to prove that, we can at least agree on this last statement, right?

Also why wouldn't 'something else' be possible?

Only the future will tell us: neither you nor me but we will definitely be able to admit it at that moment

All of your post is totally wrong, except the fact that you don't understand the rules of the game.

1) Bruno Putzeys and the Topping engineers are not different from many other engineers around the world
2) They are not doing research, meaning that new science is involved, they are engineering products
3) Their job is not to reach SQ beyond what is known today (really?) but to reach 100% of what is possible today
4) The _innocent_ phrase: "Why wouldn't something else be possible" stinks of UFOs and flat Earth
5) We will be able to admit WHAT? Are you waiting for miracles?

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Good morning.

I don't think I 'stink', otherwise it's a question of point of view

With your way of thinking, researchers can all retire since it would seem, according to you, that everything has already been discovered...

Your mind seems a little too 'narrow' to me to be a person who talks about science: researchers and scientists certainly do not have the same mode of operation as you: I am sorry to see that

 

[VientoB]

Good morning.

I don't think I 'stink', otherwise it's a question of point of view

With your way of thinking, researchers can all retire since it would seem, according to you, that everything has already been discovered...

Your mind seems a little too 'narrow' to me to be a person who talks about science: researchers and scientists certainly do not have the same mode of operation as you: I am sorry to see that

We can measure pretty much anything you want.

 

[Jimi Floyd]

Good morning.

I don't think I 'stink', otherwise it's a question of point of view

nothing personal in my post.

With your way of thinking, researchers can all retire since it would seem, according to you, that everything has already been discovered...

Read again my post, I never wrote that.

Your mind seems a little too 'narrow' to me to be a person who talks about science: researchers and scientists certainly do not have the same mode of operation as you

I don't "have the same mode of operation", I AM a scientist and a researcher, top level. Staff professor in University too.

I am sorry to see that

Don't be sorry, internet is not worth it.

 

[HalSF]

Currently, there are only a limited number of items that can be measured electrically.

I assume this is a reference to measurements in studies of psychoacoustics and cognitive neuroscience of music relying on the responses of human subjects, rather than measurements using microphones, but it’s not clear that’s what you’re talking about in claiming there are serious limits to electrical measurements of music.

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

"...Staff professor in University too..." ->

In this case, I am delighted to have never been one of your students because, in my humble opinion, the 'field of action' of my thoughts as well as my free will would have been too widely 'hindered'.

Don't take this the wrong way, I respect you, I just think differently

 

[Jimi Floyd]

"...Staff professor in University too..." ->

In this case, I am delighted to have never been one of your students because, in my humble opinion, the 'field of action' of my thoughts as well as my free will would have been too widely 'hindered'.

Don't take this the wrong way, I respect you, I just think differently

Fair enough

 

[Jimster480]

I totally understand the conversation here. There are a series of measurements that have been developed here, I even partially had a hand in the development of some of them now many years ago. However the tests done here (while they have become standard) are not the only tests that could ever be done. Amir has actually expanded on what he tests over time to "look for other things" but its important to note that there "could be something else" that could be measured in time that would potentially be meaningful in another way (such as this suggestion about psychoacoustics)... however it wouldn't invalidate the measurements already done here, rather it would compliment them.

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

I am happy to meet here a person with a 'broad' mind: this opens the way to discovery and possibility

It is in this sense that I consider science linked to research.

 

[oldpainless]

Hi all.

Short question (but propably long answer) - which filters are you guys using, and why?

I flip between 2, 5 and 7 (2 seems a good all rounder, 5 for me gives Voices, well, how to put it, more depth/clarity/emotion. 7 seems more pronouned on the bottom end/cleaner on low end.

As per my sig, Dali's are known for their revealing character, which blends nicely with the BK Downfiring sub. (Cambridge amp),

TIA.

 

[antcollinet]

I flip between 2, 5 and 7 (2 seems a good all rounder, 5 for me gives Voices, well, how to put it, more depth/clarity/emotion. 7 seems more pronouned on the bottom end/cleaner on low end.

Looking at the plots of the filters in this review - it is vanishingly unlikely there is an audible difference between those three. I am confident that if you were to compare them blind - on any genre of music - you would not be able to detect a difference.

My suggestion is - forget playing around with filters - just enjoy the music. If you want to adjust the tonality to taste, use a method designed for that - eg tone controls, or equalisation. Reconstruction filters are not.

 

[oldpainless]

Looking at the plots of the filters in this review - it is vanishingly unlikely there is an audible difference between those three. I am confident that if you were to compare them blind - on any genre of music - you would not be able to detect a difference.

My suggestion is - forget playing around with filters - just enjoy the music. If you want to adjust the tonality to taste, use a method designed for that - tone controls, or equalisation. Reconstruction filters are not.

Yeah, you could well be correct, hence me asking what others are using and why.

 

[antcollinet]

Yeah, you could well be correct, hence me asking what others are using and why.

Then to answer your question specifically. Regardless of DAC, I only ever use the default filter.

It should be the technically most accurate one.

 

[oldpainless]

Then to answer your question specifically. Regardless of DAC, I only ever use the default filter.

It should be the technically most accurate one.

I thought long and hard about responding to this one.......at one level you are correct (after all the graph shows very similar responses)....but, I CAN hear a diffrence between 2, 5 & 7, even in a blind test (just did one with the wife)...so, the only logical conclusion I can come to is about the audio chain down stream from the DAC? No?

 

[antcollinet]

I thought and hard about responding to this one.......at one level you are correct (after all the graph shows very similar responses)....but, I CAN hear a diffrence between 2, 5 & 7, even in a blind test (just did one with the wife)...so, the only logical conclusion I can come to is about the audio chain down stream from the DAC? No?

No, the down stream won't change anything with different filters. most likely is insufficient controls in the blind test - for example - if you were able to see or hear your wife while she made the switches - then she may well have given clues as to what she was doing. Or other clues, from switching time etc - you don't have to be consciously aware of any of these to have them influence you. Or she told you she was making a change (or you knew anyway) - (proper blind tests - you shouldn't know if a change is made or not)

Or did you do sufficient trials of each comparison to get statistical significance.


Etc.

With quick informal tests it is easy to get this stuff wrong.

 

[oldpainless]

No, the down stream won't change anything with different filters.

Just so I understand what you are saying: regardless of speakers or amp, I will not be able to "hear" any difference between the filters - is that correct?

 

[masterhw]

Just so I understand what you are saying: regardless of speakers or amp, I will not be able to "hear" any difference between the filters - is that correct?

the only difference is where the filters start rolling off and how sharply they do so. the most audible couple are still only half a dB at 16 kHz (do a test, do your ears still hear up there?). Even so, there is virtually no meaningful musical content at 16+ kHz for you to observe a difference with, so just stick with filter 2 and never think about it again.

 

[oldpainless]

View attachment 486416
the only difference is where the filters start rolling off and how sharply they do so. the most audible couple are still only half a dB at 16 kHz (do a test, do your ears still hear up there?). Even so, there is virtually no meaningful musical content at 16+ kHz for you to observe a difference with, so just stick with filter 2 and never think about it again.

So odd, but thanks. I mean that genuinely - I wonder if what i'm hearing (even in a blind test) is becuase the filters were cyclyed through quicklly, causing slight jumps in volumes/ranges perhaps.

 

[masterhw]

So odd, but thanks. I mean that genuinely - I wonder if what i'm hearing (even in a blind test) is becuase the filters were cyclyed through quicklly, causing slight jumps in volumes/ranges perhaps.

Yeah perhaps. I used to find the insistence on electrically levelled unsighted A/B testing annoying, but after failing a couple where I swore I was hearing a difference I’ve had to accept I’m human.

 

[oleg87]

So odd, but thanks. I mean that genuinely - I wonder if what i'm hearing (even in a blind test) is becuase the filters were cyclyed through quicklly, causing slight jumps in volumes/ranges perhaps.

Entirely possible. I don't know about this device, but on my Qudelix 5K such a test would be pointless because switching the filters changes the volume sufficiently to fatally bias any comparison, and it varies between the filter options.