SMSL C200 Pro Observations

[Nezil]

Creating a new post here in the Combination Audio DAC and Headphone Amplifiers section because that's where it should be and will get the relevant exposure.

Original post is here: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-smsl-c200pro.61507/

 

[Nezil]

I've recently set up a desktop listening station in my home office, and I was looking for either separate DAC and Headphone amp, or ideally a combined product, so I've just ordered one of these, in addition to a DL200 to see if they truly are the same. I wasn't able to find any specs beyond the OP online, and I'm hoping a little more might be in the manual.

Previous to this I was using a Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface, which looks nice, if you like the red anodised enclosure, but may not be the best DAC and certainly isn't the best headphone amplifier, so I'm hoping for some improvement overall.

One question I do have, is if the volume control on these products applies to both the headphone output and the line level outputs that I'll be passing to a small amplifier? If so, what is considered best practice here?

• Control volume with the downstream integrated amplifier and fix the DAC output to max
• Control volume with the DAC output and set the downstream amplifier to max
• Some combination of the above

I'm sure I'll have some other questions, but that will do for now.

 

[Nezil]

So my two units arrived this evening, and I have some observations... they are not the same... but they are similar.

The C200 Pro is of course smaller, and I believe it's a newer design because the DL200 has been on the market for a while now. The C200 Pro is also slightly more expensive. The other main difference in appearance is that the display seems to be a 7 segment white LED type display on the C200, whereas it's a white LED backlit 7 segment LCD display on the DL200.

In photos, the DL200 doesn't look that nice to me, with the C200 Pro being more of the small rectangular aspect that many other DACs are. In person though, the DL200 doesn't look as bad, but I do think the C200 Pro looks better.

So far I have found 2 main differences between the C200 Pro and the DL200:

• The DL200 has a High Gain setting for the Headphone amplifier and changing this setting results in a relay clicking inside. The C200 Pro does not have this setting, and as a result, it doesn't drive my headphones (Oppo PM-3) as loud
• The TRS balanced outputs on the DL200 appear to know if a single ended TR plug has been inserted. This feature is quite common on USB audio interfaces (e.g. Focusrite Scarlett 2i2), which have a single TRS output that operates as balanced or single ended depending on the cable that's been inserted. The C200 Pro outputs (both TRS and RCA) go very quiet if you insert a TR plug in to the TRS output... I don't feel comfortable doing this, and since there are RCA connectors present, you shouldn't need to, but it's worth noting

I also had some stability issues with the C200 Pro where I was getting either slow playback with the wrong sample rate detected, or strange crackling noises. Restarting the unit fixed this, but the DL200 didn't have any of this.

Finally, one thing that frustrates me about both units, is that I was unable to get either of them to connect in USB 2.0 mode through the USB 2.0 hub in my desktop monitor, even though it works fine through another standalone USB 2.0 hub. I don't have this problem with the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 that I mentioned earlier, and it means that I cannot have a 'single cable' connection for my laptop when I come home from work. I have no idea why this is an issue; both hubs have a 480 Mb/s bandwidth. I have a feeling that this is going to be a common issue with Chinese made DACs.

 

[jkim]

• The DL200 has a High Gain setting for the Headphone amplifier and changing this setting results in a relay clicking inside. The C200 Pro does not have this setting, and as a result, it doesn't drive my headphones (Oppo PM-3) as loud

According to the manufacturer specs, they have the same output power, 1.5 watts, into 32 ohm. But the high gain of the DL200 is 11 dB whereas the fixed gain of the C200 Pro is 9.5 dB. That is why your perceived loudness is a little weaker for the C200.

Anyway, it's a bummer that the C200 Pro has only one gain setting. I would choose the DL200 (or the RAW-MDA 1) over the C200 Pro because of this difference. Most headphones should be loud enough at the low gain setting of the DL200, which has not only lower noise but also prevents accidental volume ramp-up.

EDIT. Weirdly, the original C200 has dual gain settings. And the DL100 (predecessor of the DL200) has a fixed gain setting. I don't understand their design choices...

 

[Nezil]

Makes sense @jkim, the stability issue with the CL200 Pro also bothers me, so I'm definitely going to be returning it.

I am also now considering the SMSL RAW-MDA 1, though I'm not sure it's worth the extra ~$100. I prefer the form factor and display, but that's about all the benefits over the DL100 that I can see.

 

[staticV3]

what is considered best practice here?

• Control volume with the downstream integrated amplifier and fix the DAC output to max
• Control volume with the DAC output and set the downstream amplifier to max
• Some combination of the above

I'm sure I'll have some other questions, but that will do for now.

Technically, the lowest noise floor should be achieved by setting the DAC to full output (so long as that doesn't clip the Amp's input), then using the Amp's analog volume control for attenuation.

In practice, the difference between this approach and using the DAC's built-in volume control is exceedingly unlikely to be audible, so you can safely use whatever volume control is most convenient without FOMO.

 

[Nezil]

A quick update... I discovered the issue with connecting through my desktop monitor hub. It seems that the issue is if the Desktop Monitor is connected via Thunderbolt. In theory this should be no problem at all, and is no problem with other USB devices including the Focusrite 2i2 which is a lower quality DAC, but still supports up to 24b 192kHz. I've seen others have issues with Apple branded displays that also connect with Thunderbolt.

I have access to an almost identical LG 32" monitor that uses USB-C with DisplayPort Alt Mode rather than Thunderbolt, and connecting through monitor is no issue for the SMSL C200 Pro or DL200.

 

[Firedancer0341]

Hi everyone! I haven't seen much out there on the C200 Pro. I'm not very knowledgeable on DACs and amps. Can anyone explain why it's a deal breaker that the C200 Pro doesn't have multiple gain settings? I'm looking for a desktop setup for my IEMs and headphones. Would this work well with both? I'm trying to decide if it's worth the extra money to get the RAW MDA1. Thanks for any help you can provide!

 

[jkim]

Hi everyone! I haven't seen much out there on the C200 Pro. I'm not very knowledgeable on DACs and amps. Can anyone explain why it's a deal breaker that the C200 Pro doesn't have multiple gain settings? I'm looking for a desktop setup for my IEMs and headphones. Would this work well with both? I'm trying to decide if it's worth the extra money to get the RAW MDA1. Thanks for any help you can provide!

Multiple gain settings enable a headphone amp to accommodate a wide range of sensitivity ratings. For example, if the gain is fixed at a relatively high level and you want to use sensitive IEMs, then you will need to set the volume knob to a very low position. This means that noise will be higher than you would desire because the noise floor increased by the high gain cannot be decreased by the large padding.

Then, why not consider the DL200?

 

[Firedancer0341]

Multiple gain settings enable a headphone amp to accommodate a wide range of sensitivity ratings. For example, if the gain is fixed at a relatively high level and you want to use sensitive IEMs, then you will need to set the volume knob to a very low position. This means that noise will be higher than you would desire because the noise floor increased by the high gain cannot be decreased by the large padding.

Then, why not consider the DL200?

Sorry, total novice here. Would this issue be be completely eliminated if I were to use the C200 Pro as a DAC only with an external Amp?

Thanks for the response.

 

[jkim]

Sorry, total novice here. Would this issue be be completely eliminated if I were to use the C200 Pro as a DAC only with an external Amp?

Yes. The gain setting does NOT affect the DAC output. It seems that you already own the C200 Pro, don't you?

 

[Firedancer0341]

Yes. The gain setting does NOT affect the DAC output. It seems that you already own the C200 Pro, don't you?

No, I just want to get one of these SMSL DACs: C200 Pro, RAW-MDA1, DL100, or DL200 and I'm so confused on what the differences between them are. The prices aren't that different either so I just want the best one. I don't need a ton of features. I'm just going to use a USB connection to play FLAC files off my android phone. I'll be using Elysian Pilgrim IEMs and an HD600. I realize these may be overkill for that setup, but I want that clear transparent detailed sound.

Reviewers indicate that the RAW-MDA1 may be a little warmer. I'm trying to figure out if any if the others have a different sound characteristic.

 

[Slash/]

It's all about features and fit in your system, now and in the near future. (If one DAC is warmer, does that mean it's doing its job better, or worse?) Ear test IS important - for example, it's helped me realize I don't love reference speakers. I can't tell a difference between the Schiit Modi2Plus or the SMSL C200, both of which I use daily (in different rooms), but the feature spread is significant, and they go to different sets of speakers, which DO sound different.

 

[Firedancer0341]

Unfortunately in most situations, in this hobby you don't really get to try before you buy.

 

[Nezil]

Hi everyone! I haven't seen much out there on the C200 Pro. I'm not very knowledgeable on DACs and amps. Can anyone explain why it's a deal breaker that the C200 Pro doesn't have multiple gain settings? I'm looking for a desktop setup for my IEMs and headphones. Would this work well with both? I'm trying to decide if it's worth the extra money to get the RAW MDA1. Thanks for any help you can provide!

I was going to say the same thing as @jkim. Having tested and compared C200 Pro, DL200 and RAW-MDA 1 in the last week, I think I'm somewhat qualified to comment...

First off, C200 Pro vs DL200:

• Both have the same DAC chip, so should sound similar
• C200 Pro has, IMHO, a nicer form factor
  • DL200 has a 7 segment LCD with white backlight that is kind of bright even at the dimmest setting; C200 Pro has a 7 segment LED display that can be made dimmer
• DL200 has the headphone gain setting you mentioned
• C200 Pro has had stability issues, but they may have been resolved with a recent firmware update discussed elsewhere on this forum
• DL200 is slightly cheaper

That, to me, put the DL200 on top, but I felt that the benefits of the RAW-MDA 1 over these two were worth it. Those were:

• Better display
• Nicer form factor (except for the control knob)
• More inputs
• 2 x ES9039Q2M DAC chip; maybe helps with channel separation?

I'm happy with my RAW-MDA 1, and paired with with a Topping PA5 II and Klipsch RB-41 IIs (which I may replace with something better at some point), and Oppo PM-3 headphones.

 

[jkim]

I was going to say the same thing as @jkim. Having tested and compared C200 Pro, DL200 and RAW-MDA 1 in the last week, I think I'm somewhat qualified to comment...

First off, C200 Pro vs DL200:

• Both have the same DAC chip, so should sound similar
• C200 Pro has, IMHO, a nicer form factor
  • DL200 has a 7 segment LCD with white backlight that is kind of bright even at the dimmest setting; C200 Pro has a 7 segment LED display that can be made dimmer
• DL200 has the headphone gain setting you mentioned
• C200 Pro has had stability issues, but they may have been resolved with a recent firmware update discussed elsewhere on this forum
• DL200 is slightly cheaper

That, to me, put the DL200 on top, but I felt that the benefits of the RAW-MDA 1 over these two were worth it. Those were:

• Better display
• Nicer form factor (except for the control knob)
• More inputs
• 2 x ES9039Q2M DAC chip; maybe helps with channel separation?

I'm happy with my RAW-MDA 1, and paired with with a Topping PA5 II and Klipsch RB-41 IIs (which I may replace with something better at some point), and Oppo PM-3 headphones.

A nice summary. Dual ES9039Q2Ms do not help with channel separation. The dual-chip design is supposed to provide a slight improvement with respect to noise and odd-order harmonics. But the effect, if any, is infinitesimal. It is just a marketing gimmick. A single ES9039Q2M is sufficient to achieve extremely low noise and distortion.

In any case, I would simply choose b/w the RAW-MDA 1 or the DL200, just depending on which slightly different feature set is preferred over the other's.

 

[Nezil]

A nice summary. Dual ES9039Q2Ms do not help with channel separation. The dual-chip design is supposed to provide a slight improvement with respect to noise and odd-order harmonics. But the effect, if any, is infinitesimal. It is just a marketing gimmick. A single ES9039Q2M is sufficient to achieve extremely low noise and distortion.

In any case, I would simply choose b/w the RAW-MDA 1 or the DL200, just depending on which slightly different feature set is preferred over the other's.

I don't disagree with this; I don't think I could realistically hear a difference between the three.

 

[Firedancer0341]

Thanks for all the responses and information everyone. The sound is my only concern, playing FLAC files from an Android phone for IEMs and headphones. I don't need anything fancy. You guys seem to agree that there are no sound differences between DL200, RAW MDA1, and C200 Pro. No different tonality, detail perception, clarity, transparency, etc. Is that correct? Also, would you buy SMSL products from Apos?

 

[jkim]

Thanks for all the responses and information everyone. The sound is my only concern, playing FLAC files from an Android phone for IEMs and headphones. I don't need anything fancy. You guys seem to agree that there are no sound differences between DL200, RAW MDA1, and C200 Pro. No different tonality, detail perception, clarity, transparency, etc. Is that correct?

Yes.

Also, would you buy SMSL products from Apos?

AFAIK, Apos is a trusted vendor.

 

[Noske]

The DL200 (and some other models like the DO100 Pro) had some not insignificant issues with filter labelling and while I understand they could be fixed (crossing fingers) with updated firmware or (possibly) newer versions, I err on the side of caution and would not consider the DL200 purely on this issue.

I am going to assume, unless I read otherwise, that SMSL have the filters correct by now (without requiring any "fix") with the C200 Pro given all the pages that were written here on the issue.