SMSL AO200, Lack of bass punch/definition with Elac debut 6.2's

[afternine]

The DBR62 should start distorting before the amp runs out of steam.

I actually tried the AO200 with speakers of half declared wattage (and about same efficiency) of the DB6.2 but rated at 4Ω, and AO200 was able to drive them louder than the DB6.2 before distorting, but my impression was that speakers could take some more - I know those speakers really well as I ran them with an amp of real 200Wpc for years and know how those speakers sound when stressed - burned the tweeters more than once). At 6Ω the AO200 gives even less power, so that's far from what DB6.2 are capable of handling (and I recall Amir tested them and was surprised at how much they can take).

 

[Jon wise]

Out of interest what EQ settings are you using? I'm using my SMSL SA300 as a secondary system and keep the SBD mode switched on and have no complaints about the bass region

Pretty much as afternine said but I've not really used clipping protection as I don't usually have it above 35 volume. I think I'm just having to get used to this amp and its more fuller treble after the Rotel, quite possibly with its masking the mid bass with details. I'm getting the deeper bass for sure. I shall rest content for now. Thanks all.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Jon wise interesting amplifier but very underpowered.

https://www.smsl-audio.com/upload/ueditor/20210806/202108061349051461.jpg

As you can see it clips around 20~21 W on 8 Ohm's load but has excellent performance from 2 W to clipping.
It's probably underpowered to run those as you would like. If you (any of you) ever observed the wave signal of actual music that you know signal is hottest in bass and usually nominal impedance of speakers is lowest there.
Class AB usually can hold gain/power longer and go more over declared power when needed (short bursts) than class D (and most probably G-H).

 

[jamonbread]

This amp has two of infineon's class D amps inside for balanced, so it should be able to output more power if each chip is operating in mono mode.

Does anyone know if it has digitized analog inputs?

 

[rwortman]

Probably just underpowered. People tend to think small speaker/small amp but most bookshelf speakers are pretty insensitive.

For just a little more money I got one of f these for my garage system. For that I get a real 100 watts, a network streamer, and a tuner if there was anything to listen to. https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...x-100-watts-networking-stereo-receiver/1.html

 

[dr_mick51]

I'm sorry to rive late to the party. Those Merus amps react differently with each speaker, mostly due to the inductanceless/filterless design. You can try adding a 22 uH chokes before the speakers, this adds the right amount of inductance for the amplifier to work optimally.

 

[dr_mick51]

I really love these Merus amps. There is something different about them compared to typical class D amp with 2 power states only to modulate the analog signal. With the Merus you have 3 to 5 different power states, this makes the modulation and transition smoother, closer to class AB. A similar effect as on a DAC which have more "Resolution" (16bit/48kHz vs 32bit/384kHz) to reconstruct the analog signal.
The problem with some of the Merus amps is that some manufacturers used TL072c or NE5532 opamps on them. This is clearly a mistake as the amp could take full advantage of using a modern opamp like OPA1656 or OPA1678. Sadly these opamps are soldered to the board and replacing them requires some "nerves/balls".
The other issue with these amps is tat some manufacturers did not add the right output filtering, some did not add chokes/inductors on the output. I understand they might not needed by the most of speakers, but if you try to bi-amp a speaker you will have problems with the tweeters because they don't have enough inductance and don't act as the right filters.
The other big problem is when you try to measure these amp without the output chokes. The measurements might you believe this is not a good amp, and this could not be far from the truth. You just need the right filtering to measure it properly. Like what happened to Amir with the SMSL A100, he saw a lot of high frequency distortion because of the lack of filtering, so all those 10kHz and beyond distortions could be eliminated by using the right filtering.

 

[rwortman]

If the amps need output filtering to perform correctly and the manufacturer says they don’t then they are selling things designed or marketed by incompetents.

 

[sthaus]

If you like more Bass .. just use the EQ setting (Bass boost) or APO software, it does help ! .. However, Elac is kind of clarity signature speaker .. ! Try Polk R200 or JBL for similar price range .. !

I owned AO200 as well, it does give punching bass on my 3 pairs ! but not as power as from my Yamaha Amp (more power) ! Also, beware of the impedance and sensitive level of the speakers .. or you might need a pre-amp. (I'm just using DACs AK4499 and ES9038Pro --> direct to AO200 --> Speakers).

I found myself doesn't like the sound signature when adding a pre-amp HO200, it does level up the power and tight the bass but reduces sound stage and narrowing sound toward to me. It's might great for others but not in my personal taste. As result, I returned the HO200.

 

[Sal1950]

What do you gentleman expect to get out of a single 6.5" woofer?
It's not the amps or anything else, it's the speaker.
Get a bigger one.

 

[sthaus]

What do you gentleman expect to get out of a single 6.5" woofer?
It's not the amps or anything else, it's the speaker.
Get a bigger one.

Lol you work for Hifi-store right, I’m just j/k .. if his new large speakers require a lot power to drive then he needs to buy another bigger amp for sure .. ! AO200 cannot provide much power like any solid amp. For a small-mid size room .. 6.5” woofer is fine .. but can’t expect much from bass head. lol ..
Alternatively, you can buy a subwoofer like Rel .. it could help if your like the Elac signature but wanna bass more .. ! Hahaha I’m not a sale from Hifi Store.

 

[Sal1950]

Lol you work for Hifi-store right, I’m just j/k .. if his new large speakers require a lot power to drive then he needs to buy another bigger amp for sure .. ! AO200 cannot provide much power like any solid amp. For a small-mid size room .. 6.5” woofer is fine .. but can’t expect much from bass head. lol ..
Alternatively, you can buy a subwoofer like Rel .. it could help if your like the Elac signature but wanna bass more .. ! Hahaha I’m not a sale from Hifi Store.

It does all depend on room size and SPL (volume) desired.
Trying to fill in the mid-bass weakness with a sub or DRC can introduce problems of it's own.
Many/most good subs aren't designed to go that high and will produce distortion and other weird problems if forced to.
If you have a really small room or very limited loudness demands small stand mounts can work very well.
Just don't have "bass of the Gods" expectation.

 

[ZolaIII]

What do you gentleman expect to get out of a single 6.5" woofer?
It's not the amps or anything else, it's the speaker.
Get a bigger one.

It's amp alright, take a look at impedance measurements for the speaker, those can do a lot for their size and ELAC Debut Reference DBR62 can do even more while it's even harder to drive to the ear bleeding lv to quote Amir. While declared 6 Ohm's those don't fall under 5 and go way up (discussed one in lows mostly which is typical and DBR62 more in the mids), most of Harman one's (JBL, Klipsch...) declared 8 Ohm's fall even under 4. Of course they can't achieve bass response of much large units (over 10") nor on insane level (over 110 dB) but I think everyone already knows that. It's a tiny D class amplifier that neither have power nor can give much more on the impulse when it's needed (generally AB class handles this impulse high loads much better but far from it will be as problem with modern one's made of G-E-H class SoM's with loads of power on their disposal to start with). And that amp also has problems with lo impedance loads so there is little speakers it really can drive properly (easy to drive 6 Ohm's one's only).

 

[sthaus]

It does all depend on room size and SPL (volume) desired.
Trying to fill in the mid-bass weakness with a sub or DRC can introduce problems of it's own.
Many/most good subs aren't designed to go that high and will produce distortion and other weird problems if forced to.
If you have a really small room or very limited loudness demands small stand mounts can work very well.
Just don't have "bass of the Gods" expectation.

Totally agreed ! Don't ever fill it with big sub while you have a small room, it will create another problem for sure. So "size is matter"in any subjects right ! ... lol .. Reason I reckon him to have REL coz it does fast and quality bass and have many models to work with .. like T/5 or T/Zero for small-mid size room, it can give a quite punching in low volume as well. As mentioned, he might need a different speaker to provide a different signature expierence !

 

[Spkrdctr]

I don't want to be a stick in the mud, but REL subs are really inferior subs with mega marketing. Many other brands give you so much more sub for half the price or less!

 

[Sal1950]

I don't want to be a stick in the mud, but REL subs are really inferior subs with mega marketing. Many other brands give you so much more sub for half the price or less!

Agreed, SVS and HSU are 2 stellar performers and offer some of the best values in subwoofing.
In this particular case an REL might be an acceptable choice since many of their offerings aren't capable of deep bass but can provide good output in the mid-upper bass range. More of a add-on woofer than a sub.
Just my $.02

 

[sthaus]

Agreed, SVS and HSU are 2 stellar performers and offer some of the best values in subwoofing.
In this particular case an REL might be an acceptable choice since many of their offerings aren't capable of deep bass but can provide good output in the mid-upper bass range. More of a add-on woofer than a sub.
Just my $.02

REL cannot offer much for many bass heads for sure. In particular cases, REL offers a quality good bass for many room sizes. Their "quality bass" is bias and based on "audiophile head", not for bass heads ! .. Ideally, they mentioned a good sub is sub that you dont feel it exists but does enhanced the quality of bass for sure ! I also like the SVS 3000 micro as well as it is very good for small-mid size room.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Agreed, SVS and HSU are 2 stellar performers and offer some of the best values in subwoofing.
In this particular case an REL might be an acceptable choice since many of their offerings aren't capable of deep bass but can provide good output in the mid-upper bass range. More of a add-on woofer than a sub.
Just my $.02

Just about. It is the design philosophy of the company. When questioned on their outdated old style performance, they said that that is how they design them on purpose. After seeing some REL tests and hearing what they say in an official response, I cross them off the sub list for everyone!

 

[Spkrdctr]

REL cannot offer much for many bass heads for sure. In particular cases, REL offers a quality good bass for many room sizes. Their "quality bass" is bias and based on "audiophile head", not for bass heads ! .. Ideally, they mentioned a good sub is sub that you dont feel it exists but does enhanced the quality of bass for sure ! I also like the SVS 3000 micro as well as it is very good for small-mid size room.

I basically agree with you. Except about "quality bass" which ends up being almost mid bass (60hz and higher). The problem is that there are literally 100 different subs that offer the exact same quality bass and poor performance for 1/4 the price. But if someone really wants to buy a REL, I'm not going to stop them. I will just watch the train wreck happen.......

 

[delta76]

Surprised the first place to look is the amp and not the room.

Forgive my ignorance but isn't bass the hardest one to absorb/trap? If the bass was there but the room was not optimized it should be too much/too booming, not "lacking"?

OT: any chance you can borrow a different speaker and/or amp to test?