SMSL AO200, Lack of bass punch/definition with Elac debut 6.2's

[Jon wise]

My subjective Impressions of SMSL AO200, I bought this after reading generally positive impressions on this and the DA-9 amplifier; (youtube and in the forum here). Lots of reviews comparing it to A/B amps up to £1000-£1500 from a few years ago. This was to be a replacement for a Rotel RA 1060 (60 watts into 8 Ohm) approx. 17 years old bought secondhand a couple of years ago, paired with a schitt modi 3 via unbalanced rca and Elac debut 6.2's. I really like the Rotel but was lacking a lot of top end treble for my taste and what with the enthusiasm around class D at this time and the positive reviews made me decide to purchase this unit.

Well I certainty got the treble I was after, also crisp and clear details and clarity to vocals...if maybe a little lacking in midrange power, But bass I find it lacking definition; not at all punchy, seems like plenty of bass is there but sometimes I'm left straining to pick out a bass line that's clear present and defined with the Rotel.
So is this something anybody else has noticed? have I got a voltage mismatch with the schiit modi 3( I'm still learning about these things)
I don't want to return it for no good reason but maybe this unit cannot handle the power requirements of the Elacs and is more suitable for desktop use and other speakers.

I was hoping to replace the 6.2's with the debut references at some point but I want to sort amplification out first, so I would be grateful for any advice or recommendations for other amplifiers up to £500 if this unit needs to be returned. Thanks.

 

[ModDIY]

Hi I also have an amp with double MA12070
that I finally plugged into my secondary chain. If you find it lacking a bit of bass authority, look no further, the MA12070 to this sound. Bigger speakers will help a bit, but you might eat up your appetite.

I own the Sabaj A20a and my friend owns the Topping Pa3s that I will soon be testing on my system, just to compare the 2.

 

[Prolix]

But bass I find it lacking definition; not at all punchy, seems like plenty of bass is there but sometimes I'm left straining to pick out a bass line

This is one of the reasons I moved on from the 6.2. Bass was "there" but kind of soft and wooly with my Denon receiver.

 

[Jon wise]

This is one of the reasons I moved on from the 6.2. Bass was "there" but kind of soft and wooly with my Denon receiver.

ok with the Rotel though, and with my bk sub but it just amplifies the thump rather than the punch with the AO200

 

[bravomail]

ok with the Rotel though, and with my bk sub but it just amplifies the thump rather than the punch with the AO200

could it be that AO200 is simply "cleaner"?
also, I had ELAC B6 (no .1 or .2) - first version. They are "not great" to put it mildly. Dialog in movies was impossible to decipher.

 

[Jon wise]

could it be that AO200 is simply "cleaner"?
also, I had ELAC B6 (no .1 or .2) - first version. They are "not great" to put it mildly. Dialog in movies was impossible to decipher.

I have found the Elac a good budget speaker, was measured so-so here( " nothing broken, nothing exceptional") I'm thinking while the smsl is cleaner it is under powered, at least for the Elacs, the Rolel RA 1060 seems to have plenty in reserve. There is one review on Amazon where its claimed that the AO200 delivers only half of the declared power, I don't know if that's true, they are also using Elac debut 6.2's, and seeing as the Debut references are also 6ohm rated I'm thinking this amps not for me, has got me interested in class D though.

 

[MarkWinston]

I have found the Elac a good budget speaker, was measured so-so here( " nothing broken, nothing exceptional") I'm thinking while the smsl is cleaner it is under powered, at least for the Elacs, the Rolel RA 1060 seems to have plenty in reserve. There is one review on Amazon where its claimed that the AO200 delivers only half of the declared power, I don't know if that's true, they are also using Elac debut 6.2's, and seeing as the Debut references are also 6ohm rated I'm thinking this amps not for me, has got me interested in class D though.

7

I have the DA9. When I first got it, it felt 'lean' but when basslines was called for, it delivered. One has to understand that when there is no bass, it shouldnt have bass. If its a thud, it should sound like a thud and not a boom. Thats accuracy for ya. Play a track that has deep bass lines, it will deliver. Listen to 100hz. It isnt giving a ommmmmmmm sound but rather a high pitched lower sound. Yeah, thats what you are hearing. Bass is always never enough and it always sounds better more but that again, is not accuracy. A beefy kind of sound usually isnt accurate, unless its in the track itself. It sounds better, but its not hi fidelity, rather MY fidelity. Not many people will like an ultra neutral sound but trust me, it will catch on. I calibrated my tv (via isf tech) to industry standards, it felt dull af after calibration but now I cant stand another +2 brightness. Same goes for speakers.

 

[Jon wise]

7

I have the DA9. When I first got it, it felt 'lean' but when basslines was called for, it delivered. One has to understand that when there is no bass, it shouldnt have bass. If its a thud, it should sound like a thud and not a boom. Thats accuracy for ya. Play a track that has deep bass lines, it will deliver. Listen to 100hz. It isnt giving a ommmmmmmm sound but rather a high pitched lower sound. Yeah, thats what you are hearing. Bass is always never enough and it always sounds better more but that again, is not accuracy. A beefy kind of sound usually isnt accurate, unless its in the track itself. It sounds better, but its not hi fidelity, rather MY fidelity. Not many people will like an ultra neutral sound but trust me, it will catch on. I calibrated my tv (via isf tech) to industry standards, it felt dull af after calibration but now I cant stand another +2 brightness. Same goes for speakers.

I will give it a bit more time, maybe the bass is being covered by the extra details that I'm getting from the AO200, but at the moment I'm missing that element, the rotels just sound better in the presentation of bass range( to my ears). I was surprised by the extra treble of the smsl, I now see what people mean when they say find the Elacs a bit bright.

 

[Adaboy4z]

I just purchased the A0200 and D0200 based on reviews. They are powering Kef Q150 speakers and sometimes Paradigm Titan V6 speakers. Bass is surprising solid and deeper to my ears with the smaller Kefs. I attribute the bass response to my man cave. When I really want deep wall shaking bass I turn on the Kef kube 12b subwoofer. The Titans are definitely brighter with the setup.

 

[Jon wise]

I'm now more thinking its lack of articulation/power in the upper mid bass range. Is this what people mean when they say a amplifier is "lean" Don't misunderstand, I'm quite liking this amp but I don't think I've finished my search for a suitable amp for Elacs debut references or Polks R200's to get the best from them. I've been thinking of a

Nord One MP NC502 500W​

or maybe overkill, I don't tend to play too loud and have a fairly small 20 metre listening room, just thinking that a more powerful amp would have a better grip of the low end.

 

[ModDIY]

I tested 3 MA12070 amps. The MA12070's bass is very good, articulate and precise, but as I wrote in post 2, the bass (also the medium-bass) doesn't have the impact of a great class AB amplifier and compared to other class D quality.

Then it's a matter of taste and configuration. I love the Sabaj A20a dual MA12070, I kept it but I plug it into my secondary chain and I am very satisfied with it.

 

[Jon wise]

I tested 3 MA12070 amps. The MA12070's bass is very good, articulate and precise, but as I wrote in post 2, the bass (also the medium-bass) doesn't have the impact of a great class AB amplifier and compared to other class D quality.

Then it's a matter of taste and configuration. I love the Sabaj A20a dual MA12070, I kept it but I plug it into my secondary chain and I am very satisfied with it.

So you think its a class d thing? and a suitable class a/b would give better range for medium bass, and even more expensive class d may have this issue?

 

[ModDIY]

So you think its a class d thing? and a suitable class a/b would give better range for medium bass, and even more expensive class d may have this issue?

No, it's not a class D thing. For example for my 10 "woofers, I use a class D amp an IRS2092 from Infineon, one from the Sure brand 2x250w The IRS2092 is much older than the Merus MA12070 from Infineon too. The bass is powerful and well controlled, not better but more powerful. On the other hand in the mids and highs, I don't like the IRS2092 at all. Otherwise there are the Hypex, Purifi etc ... But don't Don't get me wrong, the MA12070 is very good, but compared to my class AB bi-amplification amps in my main room, the Sabaj A20a still knocked me down because it's very close, then on my AB amp, all are a little better, but it is especially in the bass that it is better.

 

[Jon wise]

No, it's not a class D thing. For example for my 10 "woofers, I use a class D amp an IRS2092 from Infineon, one from the Sure brand 2x250w The IRS2092 is much older than the Merus MA12070 from Infineon too. The bass is powerful and well controlled, not better but more powerful. On the other hand in the mids and highs, I don't like the IRS2092 at all. Otherwise there are the Hypex, Purifi etc ... But don't Don't get me wrong, the MA12070 is very good, but compared to my class AB bi-amplification amps in my main room, the Sabaj A20a still knocked me down because it's very close, then on my AB amp, all are a little better, but it is especially in the bass that it is better.

Thank you.

 

[mightycicadalord]

Surprised the first place to look is the amp and not the room.

 

[Jon wise]

Surprised the first place to look is the amp and not the room.

Well I've experimented with speaker placement and first refection's, I've improved soundstage but not the weak middle bass so far. Still work to do with that.

 

[afternine]

I have the AO200 with Elacs DB6.2 combo. The bass is there, deep, clean and tight, loud enough, just not "overwhelming". And yes, AO200 is far from the advertised power. Below is an excerpt from MA12070 spec sheet (entire doc here: https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infin...N.pdf?fileId=5546d46264a8de7e0164b750002861a5 ):

2x30W continuous output power (RL = 8Ω at 22V, PMP4, 10% THD+N level, without heatsink)
2×80W peak output power (26V PVDD, RL = 4Ω, 10% THD+N level)

Please note the THD+N level of these power numbers and impedance!

There are graphs of typical characteristics:
- on page 27, which show that at 0.1% THD+N it gives about 50W@4Ω
- on page 36, which show that at 0.1% THD+N it gives about 30W@8Ω
These are numbers for power stage supply voltage PVDD=26V, which is max recommended operating conditions and very close to 27.5V that is absolute max declared for this chip.

On pages 47 and 53 you can find graphs for 4Ω and 8Ω load at PVDD=24V (which is possibly more realistic as what SMSL actually implemented, doubt they'd push the chip closer to max declared limits) with the numbers, where you can find that at both impedances:
- 28W (or so, hard to read the line exactly) at 8Ω at 0.1% THD+N
- 45W (or so) at 4Ω at 0.1% THD+N

So at 6Ω I assume (optimistically) it gives up to about 2x 35W into Elacs DB6.2 before music starts to feel compressed, pushing further gives plenty of distortion.

Since this is loud enough for my room, I decided to keep it as I like the sound signature of said combo amp-speakers.

Keep rocking!

 

[MarkWinston]

The DBR62 should start distorting before the amp runs out of steam.

 

[SaltyCDogg]

Out of interest what EQ settings are you using? I'm using my SMSL SA300 as a secondary system and keep the SBD mode switched on and have no complaints about the bass region

 

[afternine]

for low volume all day long background music I use SBD, for "critical" listening at moderate levels I set it to direct, for rocking hard I set the EQ to direct + enabled clipping protection. No complaints about bass all the way up to close to max levels when you can hear that the bass does not punch as it should any more.
Speakers position play crucial role in perceived bass levels - in smaller untreated rooms you can find regions with literally no bass because of echo cancellation.