Small Rant: Sales of Used Audio Gear

[wje]

My rant is one that I'm sure many of you can relate to. When I post audio gear for sale locally, I tend to price it quite realistically. Yet, as the years go by, the selling conditions seem to get worse.

• Buyers think it's on open marketplace and can offer silly lowball offers and think you're a desperate seller and will bite.
  • I recently listed and sold my McIntosh MC-402 amplifier. Bear in mind, this is an amplifier that typically sells for $4,000 - $4,300. Yet, I was getting offers of $1,000 for the amplifier, which was in pristine condition. I had it listed @ $3,900 and listed that my price was firm. After getting a half dozen silly offers, I eventually sold it to an appreciative buyer at my asking price.
• I had my 1-year-old pair of 10" Monolith subwoofers listed for sale at $650. They were in excellent condition and I had installed 4 SVS SoundPath isolation feet on each subwoofer at a cost of $50, each. At my listed price, I did expect some room for negotiation. Yet, felt my price was quite good for what was being offered and my objective price was $600.
  • A buyer came over yesterday, had me play several Dolby and DTS demo tracks in my condominium so he could get a feel of the bass that could be achieved from the Monolith subwoofers. Granted, I live in a condominium and in the year that I owned them, I only used them for music listening, which I mainly don't go above 65dB in my listening position.
  • After about 30 minutes of subjecting my neighbor's china and anything not secured to some severe vibration effects in their homes, the guy then tells me that he's willing to offer $450 for the pair. I had to say "No" because that just wasn't realistic. We then agreed on $500, but it meant that the SVS SoundPath feet would be replaced with the factory rubber feet. This was then fine by me because I needed to free up room in my living room because I have 3 other subwoofers in the process of being set up for use with my music listening.
  • We then spent about 15 minutes of time going over the home theater speakers that he has and which crossover points he can utilize for setting up his front L/R speakers, center speaker and rear surrounds.
  • I helped the guy load the Monolith subwoofers into his "8" series BMW and all seemed good. Emphasis on the automobile.
  • This morning, I get a text that he has them set up and isn't getting enough "thump" out of them in his 200 s.f. room - similar size to my listening area in my place, where we had the subwoofers pounding like crazy just yesterday.
  • I texted him back and said he has to ensure his levels on configuration on his Denon AVR are correct. I guess he magically just expected to plug the subs in and they'd work without any additional configuration.
• Similar story about 6 months back. I had the crowned Emotiva SA-250 amplifier available for sale @ $550, which was a steal compared to the $700 to $800 that they normally sell for the market.
  • We agreed on a price of $500 because I had too many amps at the time and couldn't bear to hold onto another one.
  • The guy then chides me because I don't have the original box. Ugh! Well, that's why I priced it as I did and indicated in my ad that the power cord, trigger cable and manual were present, but not the original box.
  • We go outside to load the 52 Lb. amplifier into his Range Rover. Emphasis on the vehicle.
  • Though, the guy was actually OK as I checked in with him a few days later to ensure he was happy - and, he was.

My Favorites:

• People who get my down to an absurd level on the price that I agree on just to get the equipment out of my place. When they get to my door, they then happen to drop the question: "Hey, you don't have any spare cables you could give me?" Me: "Um no, sorry. You might have stop at Best Buy and pay them $49.99 for that generic RCA cable."

When I feel I've been treated fair in the transaction:

• When a customer has come over to buy an item. When those customers ask if I have any spare speaker cable, I gladly go into my huge bin and pull out 20' feet of cable for them or a spare set of RCA cables that I have so the can immediately connect their gear when they get home and avoid that dreaded Best Buy trip.

Now, I feel as though I have to carefully select my purchases and what might result in a sale down the road so I can anticipate what to expect. The market wasn't always this way. Though, I do feel some degradation each year with respect to sales.

Happy Holidays, y'all.

 

[Tsuchi]

Local sales are tough. I don’t trust having strangers in my house to be honest either. I normally don’t do it anymore and will try to sell to someone I know. If they’re friends I’ll let them in to try the equipment out.

Otherwise I’ll use Ebay. Sell as is and absolve any liability. There’s a good sized market on there too. My local hi-fi market is pretty small, and it seems a lot of the low-ballers aren’t always interested in keeping the gear, but reselling later.

I’ve also found it’s easier to sell pro-audio gear. There’s always a local artist/producer looking for that stuff.

 

[Martin]

eBay and other online sales are the same. I simply ignore or decline silly low offers. Eventually someone comes along that knows the true value of the item I am selling and I get my asking price, or darned close. I don’t suffer fools making lowball offers hoping they can scam a clueless seller.

Martin

 

[raistlin65]

After about 30 minutes of subjecting my neighbor's china and anything not secured to some severe vibration effects in their homes, the guy then tells me that he's willing to offer $450 for the pair. I had to say "No" because that just wasn't realistic. We then agreed on $500, but it meant that the SVS SoundPath feet would be replaced with the factory rubber feet. This was then fine by me because I needed to free up room in my living room because I have 3 other subwoofers in the process of being set up for use with my music listening.

I've gotten to the point where I put "price is firm" and sometimes "no looky-loos" for local sales, and I price gear to move. I'm not interested in selling to someone that doesn't know that what I have for sale is what they want. It's just not worth my time or the hassle.

Moreover, some people believe that when the price is negotiable, then the more time they spend looking at your equipment, the more likely you are to come down on the price.

So when I get an inquiry, my first question is "when do you want to come pick it up?" And I let them know for used gear if I can do a "brief demo to demonstrate it is in good working condition."

I realize it might take longer to sell something this way. I'm just looking for a smooth, quick transaction.

In fact, the last thing I sold locally was a Chromecast with Google TV that I got for free for subscribing to YouTube TV. Brand new in the box with shrink wrapping. I have Nvidia Shield Pro, so I don't need it.

Listed it for $35, figuring 30% off what Google sells it for is a good deal. Put the following on the bottom of the ad, "Price is firm. Cash only. No trades. Contact me with when you would like to pick it up."

Still had a couple of numbnuts that don't know how to do a deal contact me. Finally, the 3rd guy was a smooth, quick negotiation of when to pick it up. He arrived. We concluded the deal in less than five minutes. Then talked for another 10 minutes because he was a good guy. This is the kind of people I want to sell to.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

I always respond higher than my original asking price if someone low balls me. Just to mess with them.

The thing that bothers me the absolute most when selling locally is after you set a meeting place, date, and time. You confirm the day of and I usually even confirm again before I leave or an hour or so before to not waste my time. Then, date and time come, and they then text right around that specific time "Hey sorry not going to make it or not interested anymore"......YOU COULDN'T TELL ME THAT SOONER! Why waste my time....do you get joy out of this?

Drives. Me. Nuts.

 

[TimF]

As I see it, just my opinion. People who have disposable income have double more than enough "stuff", houses and garages crowded with stuff. Getting stuff is a way of life, the activity is habit and a way to occupy the mind. More swell, more bling. Avoidance of tedium and silence and stillness by relentless acquisition. In actuality, the person browsing, who may or may not buy the offered product, is indifferent to the item. What do you think it would take to get the shopper genuinely enthused if he has a higher end BMW or a Land Rover? He's jaded, as well as fatigued. He suspects or knows it is not really going to make a difference in his life. And so the it turns into an ego game. The money means almost nothing. It is just a score.

 

[Maki]

Getting lowball offers is just how putting up listings works. There's no need to feel insulted, just ignore them. I notice a lot of people take low offers personally, which is mystifying to me.

 

[waynel]

I don’t do local demos anymore (even pre Covid). I meet at Starbucks or allow heavy items to be picked up from my garage. I was selling a pair of speakers for $6,000 a number of years ago and there was a local guy “very interested” so I agreed to have him over to listen. Turns out he jogged to my house and was a sweaty mess. Then preceded to sweat up my sofa for an hour before not buying them. I’m older and wiser now and would not let any of this happen.

 

[milw50717]

I think anyone who has sold locally has horror stories of low ballers, people who continue to contact you upping their lowball offers by $10 every day, folks who try to explain their lack of motivation in paying anywhere close to your asking price, folks who send you price comparison links to items that sold cheap as they were broken or sold as parts, etc, etc. I went through a phase of decluttering last year and I have found that most times I have to relist things a number of times on sites such as CL before the right buyer comes along.

 

[Cortes]

• I helped the guy load the Monolith subwoofers into his "8" series BMW and all seemed good. Emphasis on the automobile.
• .

shit!, sorry but this was the interesting part of the story for me. Why didn't you counter-attack offering him $10000 for his 8-Series?.

 

[Jinjuku]

I've done pretty well with making sure the listing is clear in the terms that I'm willing to negotiate under. As an example I wanted to sell my car, I hit clist, facebook market place, cars.com and get pricing on comparable cars. I price mine 10% below.

In the listing I state:

CASH only (no a check isn't cash, no a bank check isn't cash, no your trade isn't cash)

Price X is price X, I've done my research already on pricing and if you find a similar car for less $$ my advice is you go and purchase that one

Yes you can test drive provided: You leave me your license, you show me you have current insurance and the car you leave with me is worth more than what I'm selling. Doesn't have to be YOUR car ;-)

Also As-is means As-is.

Local buyer only. You have to drive it away.

That type of communication has generally waived off the knuckle heads.

 

[Cortes]

Getting lowball offers is just how putting up listings works. There's no need to feel insulted, just ignore them. I notice a lot of people take low offers personally, which is mystifying to me.

Many people have what I call Julius Caesar's complex.

 

[flyzipper]

Like any market... the price of a thing is a combination of what buyers are willing to pay, and what sellers are willing to accept (at a given point in time).

... The market wasn't always this way. Though, I do feel some degradation each year with respect to sales.

That may be the result of the general economic degradation over the same period (especially this year).

 

[LTig]

When I sell used stuff I expect to deal over the price (that's what I do when I buy used stuff). Therefore my starting price is accordingly higher than I expect to end up with. Nothing wrong with this.

 

[Koloth]

Alright, I'm gonna play advocatus diaboli here.

• Audio equipment is a luxury item, unless one is actually a mastering engineer or musician.
• Audio equipment above a certain price point (say 1000 for electronics, 4000 for speakers and 500 for headphones) is a pure luxury item - for everybody and comparable even to the luxury watch industry where one pays for looks, exclusivity, pedigree and lineage, but not increased technical quality.
• Luxury products do horribly second-hand. Drive a factory-new ferrari off the dealer lot and write-off 50%. Wear that Rolex once and off go 50%. Second-hand just does not attract the luxury-shoppers.
• Ever fewer people have the space to put up multi-component home audio systems. The market is shrinking. Less buyers => they get to dictate more.
• Electronics especially have become commodified with quick upgrade schedules, short warranty periods, extremely limited repair options and planned obsolescence (certainly once the interfaces/protocols de jour are no longer supported). Ever tried to sell last years TV? It's not fun, ask any dealer.
• I, personally, would never buy something for 450 $ used thats 600 $ new, as in one of OPs examples 1.) I get warranty troubles. 2.) There's a reason the seller is parting ways with that specific unit. We know today how extensive unit variation especially in hifi products from small businesses (think audeze) can be. 3.) 600 $ is 500 $ half a dozend times a year when the retailers have to boost sales (think black friday). So, I'm sorry, but unless it's a very specific situation, I'm at least expecting a 1/3 reduction compared to current pricing.
• A surprising number of people judge the fairness of their offer on the value they see in the device and the price they once paid - even if the unit may have significantly come down in price in the meantime. Its a regular occurrence to find products on sale locally that are within 10% of the best online pricing. People need to understand sunk costs.
• Online, price is king. Save yourself the trouble of writing that ten-paragraph story of how great that amp is, and of taking those ten photographs. Just reducing your price another 5% will increase the chances of a sale more.
• Dont expect to sell obsolete technology. Class A amps that weigh a ton and take a nuclear reactor to run in times of AAAA ratings on every other utility in the house? Good luck with that sale.

We have to face it: the resale value of most of our stuff is shit. Thats a consequence of our systems being this personal to our tastes and of our interests being so outside of the mainstream. (Thats why I dislike the use of the word "investment" so much, when talking about audio purchases. 99% of the time you aint gonna make your money back.)

 

[digitalfrost]

Luxury products do horribly second-hand. Drive a factory-new ferrari off the dealer lot and write-off 50%. Wear that Rolex once and off go 50%. Second-hand just does not attract the luxury-shoppers.

Actually not true. I made money on all my Rolexes (should I sell them), I think there are plenty of people who've made money on Ferraris. I think choosing these two companies is a bad example for your argument. I'm not into the luxuy car world, but choose Omega or Breitling and your example fits. In any case, I agree with the idea, but the examples chosen are not good.

 

[Koloth]

Actually not true. I made money on all my Rolexes (should I sell them), I think there are plenty of people who've made money on Ferraris. I think choosing these two companies is a bad example for your argument. I'm not into the luxuy car world, but choose Omega or Breitling and your example fits. In any case, I agree with the idea, but the examples chosen are not good.

You may be right. I dont actually know anything about watches, but as I understand the car world, everybody is trying to figure out what new sports/supercar will be that future classic 20/30/40/50 years down the line and multiply in value. How many bet correctly though? I would hazard to guess, that for every Ferrari F50 thats worth x-times now, what it cost new, you'd find 5 models that nobody cares about anymore. (And then there's the thing with the entire classic car market potentially dropping off a cliff once democracies stop playing around and start to enact real carbon restrictions.)

 

[restorer-john]

Dont expect to sell obsolete technology. Class A amps that weigh a ton and take a nuclear reactor to run in times of AAAA ratings on every other utility in the house? Good luck with that sale.

That's just rubbish when it comes to vintage HiFi. What are you basing this claim specifically on?

For example a 1960s Marantz tube amplifier or a Quad amplifier.
Any Thorens turntable.
A pair of JBL L-250s or L100s.
A Technics SL-1200mk2.
A Marantz 1060 amplifier.
A pioneer SA-9100 from 1973 or any of the big receivers from the late 1970s.
TOTL CD players from the big manufacturers.

All of those few examples sell for many times their original value and they are just a few that popped into my head. I could list hundreds of models like that. Over the years I've bought and sold many hundreds of pieces of HiFi and if you know what you're doing, you always make money.

 

[Zoomer]

I'm at least expecting a 1/3 reduction compared to current pricing.

Exactly.
My guess is that unrealistic expectations are about as common with sellers as with buyers.

 

[Phorize]

It’s a market, the science of this (Kahneman et al) suggests that making very low offers as a buyer is a generally effective negotiation tactic provided that insult doesn’t cause the selling party to withdraw.

On the odd occasion that I have sold used gear I take a deeply unscientific approach and price it ‘fairly’ and point out all of the faults that I am aware of. That’s how I like to deal, and I have been rewarded by the people being very happy with what they have bought-but I am in no doubt it has cost me 000’s in lost opportunity and time. An example was an accuphase e202. It was in perfect condition save 1 scratch in a position that wasn’t obvious and functioned close to spec. It needed servicing, so I priced it at the median point for what they go for on eBay in that condition minus the cost of a test and likely case scenario service. This attracted some nice people wanting something fairly priced, a lot of people who wanted something for nothing and expected responses to endless detailed questions or for me to resolve all of their childhood neurosis and crocodilian professional traders. Most e202s on eBay are horribly overpriced accounting for the cost of servicing. I got a fair price and the buyer was absolutely delighted. Win/win. I was offered £100 for it by several people who I assumed to be professional eBay traders-they all lacked manners, but they weren’t looking for a relationship, they wanted to establish very quickly if I was desperate enough to sell for peanuts, and move on if I wasn’t. Like it or not that’s efficient.

The last thing I sold was a chord qutest. I did an experiment-no more mr nice guy. 3 months ago used in poor cosmetic condition these were listed by approved chord dealers for £1000. That’s £200 less than new. I bet they sell. The hype of this poorly featured dac in the subjective audio press has rendered a certain type of consumer defenceless against such bad deals. So I advertised with a reserve of £800 and buy it now price of £1050. I used the buy it now price to anchor the buyers expectations to a high price. It worked. Winning bid was 900. Far too much in my opinion for a dac that I could not possibly recommend having endured its piss poor controls and narrow range of useless features. I have the education and emotional IQ to manipulate people to over pay for something. I felt soiled though so won’t do it again. From now on I’ll sell fair, lose time and money but sleep well.