Small PC vs streamer

[WoodyLuvr]

Reduce the joy? We're trying to get you to pull your head out of the sand and learn to spend your dollars on things that actually increase the joy you get for your money spent?
Insisting there really is a Santa Claus is fun, but not realistic.

What?! There is no Santa?! Nooooooooooooooooo

 

[mbomberdavid]

I remember doing some experiments in psychology class many years ago with visual illusions like the top hat illusion. We could teach our brains to ignore some eventually. I’ve never fully trusted my sight, hearing or any of my senses since. I found it very interesting but I was out of my depth somewhat. I’m happy to trust the science here even if my poor old brain won’t understand it nor my senses be able to tell the difference as much as other folks can.

 

[gramp]

Happy to report that the minidsp shd passes the test for me. It's a dedicated streamer and you can customize it if you wanted (and void the warranty of course).

I took a peak inside the case and it's using a NanoPi Neo2 for the streaming computer. It's running a regular debian linux distribution for arm.

Right now the vendor provided plugins supports roon and spotify so my needs are met. But it's good to know that in the future if I need to support some other service and minidsp isn't providing it I can very easily set it up myself.

 

[jimp]

I wanted to report back the solution I ended up with for my streamer. I took the advice from @ezra_s and went with a Raspberry pi B 3+ and installed the piCorePlayer on it. I didn't have one laying around so I bought a kit from Canakit. The kit's micro sd card came pro-loaded with NOOBs so I flashed it with piCorePlayer. I am using the USB out of the pi to my RME ADI-2 DAC and then to my Nord One SE NC1200DM amp. Results are I am very happy with this solution. I added the Logitech Music Server (LMS) to the piCorePlayer. It has a decent web interface I use to access the Tidal plugin and stream music from Tidal. LMS can also access music you have stored on disk in your LAN. I thought I wanted a phone app to control the streamer and I did end up purchasing the iPing app for my iPhone but I found controlling LMS using the browser on my Mac very convenient. My ADI-2 says I'm getting 16bit / 44.1kHz (lossless CD quality) from Tidal which is their HiFi audio quality. Tidal says the Masters audio quality is only available on their desktop app which I guess is not supported by LMS. So although I'm not getting the most out of my ADI-2, I'm pleased with the audio quality I'm getting from this streamer. It cost me $85 in total and I feel like I got a lot of value for my money. Appreciate the recommendations I got here on ASR!

 

[mbomberdavid]

I wanted to report back the solution I ended up with for my streamer. I took the advice from @ezra_s and went with a Raspberry pi B 3+ and installed the piCorePlayer on it. I didn't have one laying around so I bought a kit from Canakit. The kit's micro sd card came pro-loaded with NOOBs so I flashed it with piCorePlayer. I am using the USB out of the pi to my RME ADI-2 DAC and then to my Nord One SE NC1200DM amp. Results are I am very happy with this solution. I added the Logitech Music Server (LMS) to the piCorePlayer. It has a decent web interface I use to access the Tidal plugin and stream music from Tidal. LMS can also access music you have stored on disk in your LAN. I thought I wanted a phone app to control the streamer and I did end up purchasing the iPing app for my iPhone but I found controlling LMS using the browser on my Mac very convenient. My ADI-2 says I'm getting 16bit / 44.1kHz (lossless CD quality) from Tidal which is their HiFi audio quality. Tidal says the Masters audio quality is only available on their desktop app which I guess is not supported by LMS. So although I'm not getting the most out of my ADI-2, I'm pleased with the audio quality I'm getting from this streamer. It cost me $85 in total and I feel like I got a lot of value for my money. Appreciate the recommendations I got here on ASR!

Thanks for sharing this. I found it very interesting.

 

[Karl Raffelsieper]

I began reading the post in hopes to help me decide to purchase a streamer or use a PC to act as such. It appears (and I skipped from page 2 to the end), that the discussion may have been slightly diverted. As an IT professional for some 30 years, I can easily state the TCP/IP stream from local disk or internet (Spotify or higher res sources) will reproduce the binary data, exactly as intended regardless of noise or interruptions. A CRC to the data stream and re-transmits will produce a source exactly as intended (excluding buffer issues). The debate then becomes an issue of how that data source is then interpreted by the DAC. So that is a very different problem. Data, from a CD or an internet source is what it is and very likely to be exactly as intended, unless a different protocol is used. How a DAC converts that to an analog waveform is vast in many ways. However in my mind, the source of data is true regardless of tool. PC or streamer. The bits are passed to the DAC (assuming it's external to the PC or streamer) in binary (digital) format and therefore source would appear to be irrelevant, wifi or copper included. How they are converted (and perhaps cleaned up) would appear to be the gating factor. So a PC or streamer has no relevance. Am I misunderstanding something?

 

[somebodyelse]

You're right in theory, and mostly in practice. There are a few possible gotchas in some of the details, such as streaming services that only support HD streaming on a subset of devices, or where the platform ends up converting everything to a specific sample rate, so you may find the HD content you thought you were getting isn't reaching the DAC after all. If you care about those details you need to dig a little deeper as they're highly specific and can change over time.

 

[audio_tony]

Before I get totally flamed, yes there is a scenario when an Ethernet cable can make a difference. Actually, I can think of a couple:

1. If there are power or ground issues when the cable is added (e.g. a ground loop).

I'm open to correction here, but I'm fairly certain those little black boxes that can be seen on a network PCB (right near the scokets) are isolation transformers. So there is no physical connection (except in the case of PoE) - so ground loops won't be an issue.

 

[DonH56]

I'm open to correction here, but I'm fairly certain those little black boxes that can be seen on a network PCB (right near the scokets) are isolation transformers. So there is no physical connection (except in the case of PoE) - so ground loops won't be an issue.

View attachment 67996

Ground is sometimes tied through the shield, though it should not be, and of course there is PoE to consider. But not my field.

 

[audio_tony]

Ground is sometimes tied through the shield, though it should not be, and of course there is PoE to consider. But not my field.

In my 25+ years as a network engineer I don't believe I ever saw a grounded Ethernet connection. This would wreak havoc with servers / UPS' / switches etc. due to ground loops - not to mention grounding client PCs.

 

[DonH56]

Lucky you, didn't see our network, and have to deal with the %$#!-storm when we networked our test equipment. Apparently the culprit was a bad switch, but again not my field. Maybe they just mucked up the installation of the lab switch, I don't know. I do not have significant (or really any, not for decades) experience in networking so have no doubt you are correct, just happened to hit a bad case fairly recently that was painful. My understanding was the signal shields were OK but they grounded the external shield on the cable past the isolation transformers someplace -- again, I do not know, vague memory of a couple of years ago. I am sure signal lines were STP but never quite understood the ground issue, unless there was an outer shield under the sheath? Or they tied all the grounds after the isolation transformer? I honestly don't know, just dealt with the aftermath and heard "ground cables through the switch". I strongly suspect a mistake on the installer's part.

Gotta' get back to work - Don

 

[Apesbrain]

For those running piCorePlayer/LMS, you might want to try the "Material Skin" plugin. It provides a modern UI for both desktop browser and mobile device, and it's free:

LMS > Settings > Plugins > 3rd party plugins > Material Skin

https://github.com/CDrummond/lms-material/wiki/Screenshots

 

[Geertidow]

I've been running a raspberry pi 4b with picoreplayer and a mounted USB device (SSD) to store music on (Bandcamp purchases).
So far it is working great and there is the spotify connect option (stream directly from the spotify app).
I really hope that one day there will be a tidal connect option (stream directly from the tidal app).
But, voor a streamer < 100 euro it is great in quality (assuming you have your own dac).
Enjoy your cheap but high quality streamer!
PS don't forget to turn of volume control if you use other sources of volume control

 

[Sal1950]

I really hope that one day there will be a tidal connect option (stream directly from the tidal app).
But, voor a streamer < 100 euro it is great in quality (assuming you have your own dac).
Enjoy your cheap but high quality streamer!

I would highly recommend the Apple TV 4k streaming box.
They're all over ebay for $100, that's what I paid for mine.
Besides Apple's huge multich & Atmos music library, it streams all the
TV stuff, Disney+, Paramount+ and the rest in their best quality video and sound, IE 4k video and Atmos sound where available.

 

[Vacceo]

I can understand the convenience of a streamer (like a Shield) due to the size and the remote.

However, if your system is in the same room as your PC, the streamer is a waste. The PC will do everything the streamer does and then some with the same sound quality.

 

[somebodyelse]

I can understand the convenience of a streamer (like a Shield) due to the size and the remote.

However, if your system is in the same room as your PC, the streamer is a waste. The PC will do everything the streamer does and then some with the same sound quality.

Depends a lot on how noisy and power hungry your PC is.

 

[Vacceo]

Depends a lot on how noisy and power hungry your PC is.

That is why I said if the PC is in the same room. Noise is a concern to keep it out. Power hungry, well, not that much as consumption for streaming is a light load.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I can understand the convenience of a streamer (like a Shield) due to the size and the remote.

However, if your system is in the same room as your PC, the streamer is a waste. The PC will do everything the streamer does and then some with the same sound quality.

And the streamer can't do DSP programs like Dirac or Audiolense unless we're talking about an RPI4 with Camilla.

 

[Vacceo]

My PC is watercooled, so noise is not an issue when playing media or streaming (it is a quite low power task). Using the HDMI from the GPU I do not notice any degradation in sound quality; there may be such or it could be worse compared to other devices, but if I use a CD connected to the USB unit of the PC compared to a CD transport, I do not find any difference.

 

[Tangband]

I am currently using a small computer (Asus Vivo PC, similar to an Intel NUC) connected via USB to my Cambridge Audio 851D DAC. The "music server" is a desktop located in another room, running Jriver (the Vivo PC is also running Jriver). Could a music streamer (like a BlueSound Node or a Cambridge Audio 851N) improve the sound quality compared to the Vivo PC --> USB--> DAC ?

In addition, the Vivo PC is connected directly to my router (ethernet cable). A co-worker was telling me that I should insert a small unmanaged network switch between the router and the Vivo PC ?! I do not understand at all how it could improve the sound quality ?

If the computer is setup correctly ( the right settings in Windows, using ASIO and no CAudioLimiter ) and the digital volume regulation and SRC is correctly done, ( sucks using Windows own, OK on Mac ) and the protocol from the computer to the dac dont use spdif ( sometimes the DAC is sensitive to correct clocking ), and the switch mode power supply dont contaminate everything, there should be no difference between a hifi-streamer and a laptop used as a digital streamer.

Those potentially faults can also appear in a hifi streamer, because its also a computer.

This is good reading :

Ending the Windows Audio Quality Debate

A debate has been long raging in the audio community that Windows isn't fit for use in a high resolution audio system. Sceptics counterargued that bits are bits and Windows audio degradations are a figment of an over-active audiophile imagination. I decided to investigate this as I kept...

www.audiosciencereview.com