Small budget first sub recommendation Yamaha vs Jamo

[pirxel]

Hi guys,

It's me again. I want to add a sub to my system, but I have a lot of restrictions, so I wanted to ask for your help here.
These would be paired with my pair of KEF Q100 powered by a Yamaha S301 (throught the fixed 100hz low pass filter dedicated sub out) in my medium sized room on my desktop system. I want it because the Q100s cut off very quickly at around 100-70hz and I do enjoy a good bass, however I do understand the lower it goes the bigger and more expensive that box generally can be.

I'd use it mainly to listen to music but sometimes watch movies with the family. I live in an apartment with sensitive neighbors so adding some isolation to it will be a must, but I want to focus on finding the model first - that is to say I don't need much power as I'll listen in low to moderate volumes only. Also as the first sub and given the other restrictions above, I'd really not buy anything expensive at this point. Space here is also an issue, so I really don't want anything big. I also live in Poland, so it needs to be something that can be easily purchased (and returned if needed) in the EU. Ah, it also needs to be black

So far I've set my sights on two very similarly priced and sized solutions:

Yamaha NS-SW050 - 135 EUR in amazon.de - claims to go down to 28 Hz (but I really wonder if it's true)
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/speaker_systems/ns-sw050/specs.html#product-tabs
Jamo SUB 210 - 193 EUR also in amazon - claims a bit more realisticly to go down to 38 Hz
https://www.jamo.com/products/sub210#manuals

I'd say I'm confortable spending up to 300 EUR on it right now, but the cheaper the better of course.

Both have 20 cm (8inch) woofers, the yamaha claims to go lower but I wonder and the jamo claims a more powerful amp (150w against 50w of the yamaha), but again, these specs don't tell much. I like the format of the Jamo and the fact it comes with feet, but it's down firing driver, so I'm wondering if that won't bother the neighbors more as well

What you guys think? Maybe going used could be a good idea?

 

[Count Arthur]

Would you consider used?

How about something like a REL Stampede: https://www.sarte-audio.com/sites/default/files/stampededvdreview68.pdf

I have one with my desk set-up and it works really well with the "High level" input from the speaker outputs on the amp as I don't have a "sub output".

 

[pirxel]

Would you consider used?

How about something like a REL Stampede: https://www.sarte-audio.com/sites/default/files/stampededvdreview68.pdf

haha sure, but this looks pretty old (which I don't care per se, if it get low enough to be worth it and still work properly). I heard volumes about REL subs and I'd love one, but I get the impression I could never get one within my 300 EUR budget.
I looked for this one and I don't find this one to sell here in the local used market. From Hifishark I just see these being sold from Bulgaria (for 200 EUR), which makes me a bit uneasy to be honest - the ad is in cirilic in both cases :S . If buying used I'd prefer to get something from Poland so shipping and return is not insanely expensive (especially for a cheap but big and heavy box).

 

[Vini darko]

If it was my money. Would trust yamaha electronics over whatever jamo is using.

 

[pirxel]

If it was my money. Would trust yamaha electronics over whatever jamo is using.

Really? I mean I do trust yamaha, and I'm leaning more towards it, but I thought Jamo was a good brand for audio gear too, no? Care to elaborate?

 

[Vini darko]

Really? I mean I do trust yamaha, and I'm leaning more towards it, but I thought Jamo was a good brand for audio gear too, no? Care to elaborate?

Yamaha is known for active speakers and amplifiers. Jamo is known for passive speakers. So of the two I'd have more trust in yamaha making a reliable active sub.

 

[raindance]

They're both going to be awful. Look at Rel or Acoustic Energy or similar, used.

 

[A800]

Used and 12 inch at least.

 

[pirxel]

you guys are crushing my dreams

They're both going to be awful. Look at Rel or Acoustic Energy or similar, used.

The cheapest REL I found locally used is a 10 inch for 350 EUR. That extrapolates both my budget and space constraints.
I'm seeing some Acoustic Energy ones more within my budget, thanks for the tip, I'll explore that option - I think I could even the Acoustic Energy AE108 new, though this would be a bit of a stretch of my budget already.

I'd LOVE a REL T7i, but I doubt I'll be able to afford that any time soon, even used.

Used and 12 inch at least.

A 12 inch will really be too big here, maybe a 10 could work if the enclosure is not too large, it's going under my desk guys. You do think an 8 inch one is not worth it?

 

[A800]

Depends on the 8 inch in question and your requirements.
Right now I got 4 12 inch and I need/want more.

 

[pirxel]

Right now I got 4 12 inch and I need/want more.

Mindblown here because of the 4 subs, but I respect that

Depends on the 8 inch in question and your requirements.

I'm glad you said this, yes that REL I linked before would probably do the job, but the money....

 

[A800]

https://www.thomann.de/pl/subwoofery1.html?oa=pra
The ESI looks good.
30 day money back on thomann afaik.

 

[Patrick1958]

If you don't mind ordering from Germany, Conrad Electronics : Magnat Monitor, Wavemaster Fusion, Heco Victa. These are front firing subs.
I use two Magnats in my man cave both for listening music and movie watching. Don't expect them to be at the level of the Rels, however they are satisfying for my needs.

 

[bogart]

They're both going to be awful. Look at Rel or Acoustic Energy or similar, used.

I have an acoustic energy Aesprit 308 from nearly 20 years ago and it is distinctly not terrible. The amp is fairly good and there’s lots of options for connectivity including running speakers through its internal crossover. They’re also very under appreciated (I know from trying to sell mine once!) and so the resale value is surprisingly poor. My serial number is only 3 digits long so I suspect they didn’t sell crates of these if you can find one it’s actually not a bad choice.

Mine is still in use, despite ample opportunity to replace it!

 

[q3cpma]

If you aren't using an external crossover, I'd try to find a subwoofer with a high pass filter, at least. Both don't have it.
Yamaha seem to use some kind of servo control, which is great at this price, but doesn't provide the comprehensive phase controls of the Jamo. Personally, I wouldn't consider this specific Yamaha, although the NS-SW200 looks quite nice.

 

[raindance]

I don't recommend using the high pass filter in the sub unless you're not too picky. Most of them sound bad, add noise, reduce clipping level on your main speaker's/amp and they're generally too primitive to help integrate the sub in any meaningful way. Just use the sub crossed over a few Hertz below the cutoff point of the mains and measure to confirm phase.

 

[pirxel]

If you don't mind ordering from Germany, Conrad Electronics : Magnat Monitor, Wavemaster Fusion, Heco Victa. These are front firing subs.
I use two Magnats in my man cave both for listening music and movie watching. Don't expect them to be at the level of the Rels, however they are satisfying for my needs.

I don't mind at all, thanks for the tip, I bought most of my audio gear out of amazon.de, not sure about delivery conditions from smaller stores, but I'll check it out, thanks! Those Wavemaster do look sexy.

If you aren't using an external, I'd try to find a subwoofer with a high pass filter, at least. Both don't.
Yamaha seem to use some kind of servo control, which is great at this price, but doesn't provide the comprehensive phase controls of the Jamo. Personally, I wouldn't consider this specific Yamaha, although the NS-SW200 looks quite nice.

Yeah I'm not convinced I need high pass filter since I plan to use my amp sub out which will send an LFE signal out so I'm counting on it do deal with the cross-over, so that single rca connection is probably all I need for now. That also looks like an insane amount cables and I'm worried what a budget sub could do with the signal to my speakers anyway. The phase controls could be nice but I'm not expecting it to really work (or even be there) for the price I'm willing to pay for now.

I'm feeling the conversation will go on, but i'd like to thank you all once again, all of that already gave me a lot to consider

 

[Juhazi]

SVS subwoofers are very good with modest pricing. Most cheap ported "subs" are just woofers...

Good source for information and tests here https://data-bass.com/#/?_k=57y72e

Please consider DIY or a used diy-sub from hifi/HT forum members!

 

[Matias]

I would go SVS SB2000 or the new SB2000 Pro for first (and final?) subwoofer.
https://www.amazon.de/SB-2000-Active-Subwoofer-STA-500D-Amplifier/dp/B00JLENGNY

 

[CDMC]

Here are my thoughts:

1) Skip REL. Until recently, their models had very poor performance for the money. Even their supposed top end models could barely put out 100db without horrible distortion. There is only so much you can do with a moderate travel 10" driver.
2) With subwoofers, Hoffman's iron law applies. Efficiency, extension, enclosure size, pick two. When on a budget, if you have the space, a larger enclosure will get you more output and extension, all other things being equal.
3) You need to save a bit more to get into the decent category. I am not sure if they are available in Europe, but the RSL Speedwoofer 10s at $400 US is generally considered the entry into real subwoofers that sound good. It has a 30hz -3db point and puts out over 100db at 30hz. It's output is comparable to the SVS SB2000.
4) If you can save and swing it, the SVS SB-1000 would be a good choice for you.
5) At a lower pricepoint, I would try and save up and get the ELAC 3010, which is 365 Euros on amazon.de The Elac will also get you solid 30hz response, but with less output capability than the RSL.
6) AVSforums has an excellent subwoofer forum. You may want to ask your question over there and see if you can get additional ideas.