Small 2-way speakers with linear on-axis and power response characteristics (Scan Speak and SB Acoustics drivers). H&V off-axis measurements included

[dcibel]

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mq29Io1

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrVwxdn

 

[modus2000]

Could anybody share measurement files for each speaker without crossover? (Impedance curve + frequency response)?
I'd like to simulate this kit in LSP CAD

 

[XMechanik]

Could anybody share measurement files for each speaker without crossover? (Impedance curve + frequency response)?
I'd like to simulate this kit in LSP CAD

In the first post you have a link to a zip containing the full set of measurements (and the VituixCad project file).

 

[smokey_mountain_asr]

Does anyone know if the woofer at the end of life. Madisound when I called was not sure if they re-stock?

 

[DatSpeakerTho]

Does anyone know if the woofer at the end of life. Madisound when I called was not sure if they re-stock?

Looks to be in stock on their site at the moment.

Might order some and make a second pair. This speaker just does everything I need.

 

[DatSpeakerTho]

Working on my second mechano23. Not really many speakers out there that I can listen to and have no complaints about, but m23 is that. Ive built probably 3-4 other speakers since my first m23 but none of them stuck around.

Finally got around to setting up my table saw ive been using for a year without and calibration. Fresh blade and a new diy fence and it cuts like butter. Only one saw blade mark on one side out of all the cuts. And im laying 9mm! Im happy with those results.

 

[soilentblue]

There's a guy that keeps saying they are equal to C Notes. Does anyone have an agreement or disagreement with this?

 

[a4eaudio]

There's a guy that keeps saying they are equal to C Notes. Does anyone have an agreement or disagreement with this?

The Mechano measure better, so they are almost guaranteed to be preferred by ASR users. The C-Notes kit uses all Dayton drivers and components so it is subsidized by Parts Express and probably is 1/4 to 1/3 the price of the Mechano drivers plus xo components.

@DatSpeakerTho has heard both.

 

[Paweł L]

Is there a spinorama for C-Notes, most likely not. And during design process the designer didn't do a complete 360° sweep of individual drivers like Mechanic did in his built, so the x-o is not fully optimized. From technical point of view XMechanic offerings are as good as it gets given the parts he has chosen. Yes, the x-o is complicated but that's route to achieve satisfactory results. One of most complete kits in my opinion.
The only change would be to use passive radiator as to avoid vent resonances. I used the oval 5X8 from SB in my own project and to me it's a very worthwhile improvement over the regular bass reflex loading - no more funky mids

 

[a4eaudio]

Is there a spinorama for C-Notes, most likely not.

Yes, on ASR and Spinorama.org

And during design process the designer didn't do a complete 360° sweep of individual drivers like Mechanic did in his built, so the x-o is not fully optimized.

There is no such thing as a fully optimized xo. Give 20 speaker designers the same drivers in the same cabinet and you'll probably get close to 20 different crossovers. (There was a design competition a few years ago that did this, although the number of participants was probably less than 20.)

From technical point of view XMechanic offerings are as good as it gets given the parts he has chosen.

I don't know what "good as it gets" means. See above comment on xo. There were some posts in this thread with some simulations with a simpler xo. Doesn't mean either is better, just different.

 

[Paweł L]

I don't see spinorama in instruction files provided by PE for C-Notes, nor x-o transfer functions only very basic set of measurements. As for independent full set of measurements, the one by ASR shows ugly 5dB resonance around 800Hz. Therefore I argue that XMechanic's design is more competent than the one of C-Notes.
I understand that different designers will prioritize different criteria and come up with different final results. Myself I come up different set crossovers with different complexity for a given set of drivers, each measuring and sounding differently. I this particular case XMechanic's design is neither to simple nor to complex and addresses the most important aspects of good crossover design, 'as good as it gets' without being too complicated.

 

[Newman]

Would it be possible to describe which parts of the bass driver crossover are influencing the bass output at frequencies other than the crossover slope itself?

Examining the bass driver manufacturer's response on a flat baffle...

© SB Acoustics​

...it does appear that some smoothing has occurred below 1000 Hz.

cheers

 

[DatSpeakerTho]

C notes and m23 sounds pretty similar. Can't go wrong with either one. Cnotes present an unbeatable value, but the drivers in m23 are fancier. The SB woofer is a lot easier to work with. The cnote woofer usually has seal issues where it meets the tweeter and is easy to bend the frame with screws. Overall cnote looks cheap in comparison to m23, SB woofer is visually way more appealing, probably my favorite looking cone material. With that said cnote kind of sounds amazing and I don't think there will ever be a kit that gives you so much for so little. Mechano23 can be pretty expensive depending on how you make them. Mine were somewhere near $500-600/pair because I am boujee and figure if you're gonna put the labor in, might as well give that speaker bling.

Both speakers really need a PR IME. I find these small tube ports on 5" drivers start chuffing right when things get good. Plus once you hear a PR speaker that doesn't have upper port resonances you don't want to go back. I can absolutely crank the bass on the m23 with the PR and it just doesn't care.

My only con is both speakers seems to subjectively lack a bit of oomf in the 150-300hz ish region that I tend to only find on 6"+ woofer speakers.

so the x-o is not fully optimized.

It could be better but any issues would show up in the spins. A PR fixes it's an issue, a shelf filter fixes another. End result is an excellent sounding speaker. You could download the vcad files for the mechano22 and play around with that. Same drivers as cnotes, driver layout just millimeters off. I think the cnotes in stock form would satisfy most listeners, and they offer good neutrality and good DI. Can't really ask for much more for the price.

 

[XMechanik]

Would it be possible to describe which parts of the bass driver crossover are influencing the bass output at frequencies other than the crossover slope itself?

Examining the bass driver manufacturer's response on a flat baffle...
View attachment 537407

© SB Acoustics​

...it does appear that some smoothing has occurred below 1000 Hz.

cheers

It's difficult to clearly separate the functions of the components, but generally, mid-woofer equalization is more a matter of the series-parallel resonance circuit (R2,L2,C2,C3),. It's best to play with the component values in VitixCad, observing which part of the characteristic they affect.

 

[Kayc]

Hi everyone, greetings from China! I really want to build a speaker following your tutorial. I've checked and can source all the electronic parts, but I can't find the right wood material for the enclosure, and I don't have the tools to make it myself. I was wondering, would you be willing to make a pair of speaker enclosures for me using your materials and tools? I'm happy to cover all costs including materials, labor, and shipping. Thank you, and I hope to hear from you!

 

[somebodyelse]

Hi everyone, greetings from China! I really want to build a speaker following your tutorial. I've checked and can source all the electronic parts, but I can't find the right wood material for the enclosure, and I don't have the tools to make it myself. I was wondering, would you be willing to make a pair of speaker enclosures for me using your materials and tools? I'm happy to cover all costs including materials, labor, and shipping. Thank you, and I hope to hear from you!

The wood type isn't critical. If you can't get birch ply then bamboo ply or MDF would be fine. I'd be amazed if you couldn't find somewhere local to at least CNC the panels for you, or even assemble and spray the cabinets. I thought JLC might do it, but it seems to be one of the few things they don't do yet. https://jlccnc.com/blog/what-is-cnc-routing

Another option is 3D printing which you can get done locally. This model was shared earlier in the thread.

 

[Kayc]

The wood type isn't critical. If you can't get birch ply then bamboo ply or MDF would be fine. I'd be amazed if you couldn't find somewhere local to at least CNC the panels for you, or even assemble and spray the cabinets. I thought JLC might do it, but it seems to be one of the few things they don't do yet. https://jlccnc.com/blog/what-is-cnc-routing

Another option is 3D printing which you can get done locally. This model was shared earlier in the thread.

Thank you for your reply. I will try to learn more following your guidance. Since I've never tried making anything like this before, building the wooden enclosure seemed like a very difficult task at first. But taking this opportunity, I can learn a lot. Thank you so much!!!

 

[robainche]

I volunteer at a recreative center for neurodivergent people, and made a good friend there, Arno. He's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but he has absolute hearing and is one of the funniest people I've ever come across. It seemed like a fun activity to build a set of Mechano23's together with him!

Anyway, we're planning on using wineds PCB design to build the crossover.
As we're located in Europe, the Solen components are not ideal for the crossover build. Together with Gemini I came up with this alternative list from European suppliers, which should be footprint compatible, while also upgrading some components:

L1	0.33mH	Mundorf	L80-0,33	17mm H x 30mm D
L2	0.56mH	Mundorf	L80-0,56	17mm H x 34mm D
L3	1.5mH	Mundorf	L80-1,50	19mm H x 40mm D
L4	0.39mH	Mundorf	L80-0,39	17mm H x 30mm D
R1	12ohm	Jantzen Audio	002-0478 (Superes)	8.5mm D x 52mm L
R2	8.2ohm	Jantzen Audio	002-0460 (Superes)	8.5mm D x 52mm L
R3	15ohm	Jantzen Audio	002-0485 (Superes)	8.5mm D x 52mm L
C1	6.8uF	Audyn Cap	MKT-160V-6.8	13mm D x 34mm L
C2	0.82uF	Jantzen Audio	001-0615 (Superior Z-Cap)	17mm D x 43mm L
C3	27uF	Mundorf	ECAP100-27	14mm D x 30mm L
C4	18uF	Jantzen Audio	001-0275 (Cross Cap)	30mm D x 44mm L
C5	3.3uF	Audyn Cap	MKT-160V-3.3	11mm D x 27mm L
C6	2uF	Jantzen Audio	001-0238 (Cross Cap)	15mm D x 31mm L

Does this seem like a solid component list?

For those interested, this was Gemini's rationale for the component upgrades:

• Use the Closest Match (Mundorf L80) for the inductors. They preserve the structural parameters of XMechanik’s schematic perfectly and fit wineds' layout like a glove.
• Choose the Audiophile Upgrade (Jantzen Superes) for your resistors. At a marginal absolute price increase (around €1,30 extra per resistor), eliminating cement-core wirewound distortion on the tweeter waveguide is an engineering no-brainer.
• For C2, splurge on the Jantzen Superior Z-Cap. C2 is heavily influential over the high-frequency presentation of this speaker; this single substitution will elevate the depth of the soundstage remarkably.

 

[technodanvan]

I really like that idea of 3D printing the front and using wood elsewhere. I'm the one who did the full 3D printed cases, but was just suggesting to someone that this hybrid approach was brilliant.

FWIW, I'd done lots of testing on materials and infill vs. resonance of panels. That's what led me to PET-G.

Greetings! I found your files on Makerworld and tried to reach out to you there, but then I found you here! I'm working on my own printable model and was curious what you might have done differently (if anything) to shore up the stiffness of the cabinet? I've posted some of this elsewhere, but two of the goals I have are to eliminate 1. the need for glue (by using printed gaskets and stainless hardware) and 2. the need for tall/long supports to improve the chance of success on very long prints. This is an early look at what I've done thus far. At a minimum, I still need to revise the bracing, model the rear, figure out where to put the THD filter (the crossover PCB mount is already included) and integrate augerpro/STVs optimized port.

Edit: I should point out this will be printed on a Bambu H2D, so I can print the baffle, rear, and cabinet as singular pieces. Prototypes below.

Tolerance/fitment check of the braces.

Examples of the optimized ports. I kept the original tuning for these (45 Hz @ 8L), but I'm not certain what the final volume will be and I might raise the tuning a hair. The port will be removable in the final product though, so altering this will just require a reprint.

 

[technodanvan]

I volunteer at a recreative center for neurodivergent people, and made a good friend there, Arno. He's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but he has absolute hearing and is one of the funniest people I've ever come across. It seemed like a fun activity to build a set of Mechano23's together with him!

Anyway, we're planning on using wineds PCB design to build the crossover.
As we're located in Europe, the Solen components are not ideal for the crossover build. Together with Gemini I came up with this alternative list from European suppliers, which should be footprint compatible, while also upgrading some components:

L1	0.33mH	Mundorf	L80-0,33	17mm H x 30mm D
L2	0.56mH	Mundorf	L80-0,56	17mm H x 34mm D
L3	1.5mH	Mundorf	L80-1,50	19mm H x 40mm D
L4	0.39mH	Mundorf	L80-0,39	17mm H x 30mm D
R1	12ohm	Jantzen Audio	002-0478 (Superes)	8.5mm D x 52mm L
R2	8.2ohm	Jantzen Audio	002-0460 (Superes)	8.5mm D x 52mm L
R3	15ohm	Jantzen Audio	002-0485 (Superes)	8.5mm D x 52mm L
C1	6.8uF	Audyn Cap	MKT-160V-6.8	13mm D x 34mm L
C2	0.82uF	Jantzen Audio	001-0615 (Superior Z-Cap)	17mm D x 43mm L
C3	27uF	Mundorf	ECAP100-27	14mm D x 30mm L
C4	18uF	Jantzen Audio	001-0275 (Cross Cap)	30mm D x 44mm L
C5	3.3uF	Audyn Cap	MKT-160V-3.3	11mm D x 27mm L
C6	2uF	Jantzen Audio	001-0238 (Cross Cap)	15mm D x 31mm L

Does this seem like a solid component list?

For those interested, this was Gemini's rationale for the component upgrades:

This is a cool project for you and your friend! However, not only are those parts generally more expensive than those in the BOM (for the US, at least), several are physically larger. Fitting everything on the PCB would be a challenge, and remember this still needs to fit into the box somewhere. Additionally, depending on how you construct the cabinet, you may need to fit this through the woofer opening.

I think you might be further ahead doing some research outside of Gemini to see what is available in the EU. I've used this site for ordering parts shipped to the states before. I really like them, but I don't think I've compared pricing to other European vendors, nor have I purchased crossover parts from them before.