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Small 2-way speakers with linear on-axis and power response characteristics (Scan Speak and SB Acoustics drivers). H&V off-axis measurements included

Good luck!
Just note that there is a slight error in the external dimensions given in the first post (should be HxWxD: 290x174x263mm). Unfortunately, I am unable to edit this post. I'm attaching some sketches, maybe they will be useful.
View attachment 293319View attachment 293322View attachment 293324View attachment 293321
front and rear panel: 174x290mm
side panels: 227x290mm
top and bottom panel: 138x227mm


Err, how far down the center is tweeter and midbass driver center?
 
I ordered my parts on soundimports.eu. They had everything needed and I got the shipping for free to Czechia. Here is the cart:
There is one pair of coil missing (0,33mH) - they didn't have them in stock so I bought them elsewhere.
View attachment 408375
btw, in hindsight, I would probably buy a thinner speaker wire, I think I bought a way too thick one
Cheers again!
Is this missing a PCB Plate? Do you have a a guide / tutorial ready for assembling it all together?
 
@Fabsen The guide was proposed by woody99, you can find it as an external link in post #360 also in the same post you can find the croossover support made with a wooden board.If you want the pcb you can find it in post #297 as an external link.
 
I've been contemplating my port dimensions, thinking perhaps this is one area that we could improve on the original spec. One challenge/obstacle is a lack of available port options between the original 1.375" port and widely available 2" ports which would require too much length. Finding something 1.75"-ish and long enough proved challenging.

Eventually I found PVC Class 200 IPS pipe, which is used for irrigation, which I may ultimately choose. The nominal 1.5" size is actual 1.9" o.d. and 1.7" i.d. That's 50% greater cross sectional area than the 1.375 port . . . enough to meaningfully impact potential port noise, but small enough to keep the length reasonable.

I'm considering lengths in 200-230mm range, with a corresponding slight rise in tuning.

Of course implementing a port w/ basic pipe adds a degree of difficulty for the build. I'll probably roundover the port hole on the back panel, and use a heat gun and wine bottle to flare the interior end of the pipe.
Does the port need a 90-degree bend in it, or will it not interfere with the tweeter? The depth of the cabinet is 227mm +18 for the rear panel. I just don't know the depth of the tweeter. Im stil hunting for ports myself. Edit: tweeter is 45mm deep

Found these locally albeit they might be too short.
https://solen.ca/en/products/pt-1-9f

 
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It looks like Solen is out of the extendable ports. I was going to try the double monocor port option presented but SO. They had the bigger 2inch option, put 4 in my shopping cart, and also sold out.

Solen's only option is this port: https://solen.ca/en/products/precision-sound-products-psp2-bknt-2x11inch-flared-port-tube-kit. I am aware that a double-flared port is beneficial, but I have no idea how to calculate velocity or tune it. 11 Inches/ 280mm of the total 12 inches is usable, which seems to fall in line with post#76. I'm guessing just trim it to 224mm or thereabouts?

#2 idea is to

1. use one MBR-50 Monacor port extended to 224mm (MBR-50, internal diameter 51mm, length 150 to 280 mm, Sv=20,4 cm2)
 
It looks like Solen is out of the extendable ports. I was going to try the double monocor port option presented but SO. They had the bigger 2inch option, put 4 in my shopping cart, and also sold out.

Solen's only option is this port: https://solen.ca/en/products/precision-sound-products-psp2-bknt-2x11inch-flared-port-tube-kit. I am aware that a double-flared port is beneficial, but I have no idea how to calculate velocity or tune it. 11 Inches/ 280mm of the total 12 inches is usable, which seems to fall in line with post#76. I'm guessing just trim it to 224mm or thereabouts?

#2 idea is to

1. use one MBR-50 Monacor port extended to 224mm (MBR-50, internal diameter 51mm, length 150 to 280 mm, Sv=20,4 cm2)
You won't be able to fit either of those ports if 224-228mm length. The backside of the tweeter protrudes into the cabinet by 27mm, so any port > ~217mm mounted flush to the cabinet rear panel will interfere with the tweeter. Then consider one rule of thumb for air flow is to have clearance from port opening to walls/drivers equal to the port diameter, and you're talking more like ~ 175mm max length.

A smaller port and/or one without a large diameter interior flare can be offset from the tweeter center to some degree, and gain a bit of space to eek out a slightly longer port. But the linked PSP2-BKNT port has a huge interior flare.

Also, a 175-200mm port, if 2" diameter, will raise the tuning to 60-65Hz.

You might consider buying four of this port (two per speaker): https://solen.ca/en/products/solen-pt-1-5l-38mm-flared-port-tube

You can "build" a longer port from two of them. It helps that they are super cheap (CA$1.62! :) ). There are different ways to modify them. You can cut two down symmetrically and then butt them together (with tape, or PVC cement) which gives you a flare on both sides, but note that can't be inserted from the rear: you need to connect the two pieces after inserting the rearmost thru the rear panel. Another option is to cut down only one port, perhaps cut off the last .5" to 1" (the flange bit) and then the taper of the tube may allow it to be slid over the tip of the uncut second port, and PVC cemented.

Maybe even consider buying a fifth of those ports as a donor port. You can carefully cut a 1" portion of the tube, then make a perpendicular cut to "split" the tube, so it can be used as a cementing link/ring (wrapped around the exterior of two abutted ports).

EDIT: note the port I linked is slightly larger diameter (1.5") than the stock port (1.375"). To maintain the intended tuning, you'd need an effective length of about 170mm, which may translate to actual length of roughly 180mm if flared on one end or 190mm if flared on both ends. This doesn't need to be exact; shifting the tuning 1Hz because of a 6mm length difference (or 2Hz and 12mm, etc) isn't going to be audibly meaningful.

EDIT 2: Dang! Just noticed that Solen has only three units remaining of that port :(
 
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These measurements look really good. The impedance characteristic is almost identical to the prototype, strangely you can't even see the resonance in the 300Hz region. The nearfield (2cm) measurement matches the Klippel NFS, so there is no reason to suspect problems with on-axis or any other characteristic. Honestly, when I read your post no. 320 I thought there might be a problem with the implementation. The measurements you attached don't seem to confirm this, and the difference compared to my perception seems to be just a matter of individual preferences. However it's still worth to perform 1m on-axis gated spl measurement just to confirm the balance between woofer and tweeter.
I have set them up now in a desktop monitor setting and I'm really pleased with them. Very good tonal balance and in the near field I don't have the same 'issue'/preference regarding openness or detail that I had in the far field in my living room. I guess I prefer a constant directivity in the far field in my room instead of a linear (narrowing) directivity. Thanks for your great design and efforts @XMechanik !
 
Finished my pair couple of weeks ago. Very satisfied with the sound plus I bonded with my dad a lot! Learned a lot about woodworking a different materials as well, since this was my first audio DIY project! Big thanks to @XMechanik and all of yall for help.

I put them on this cabinet next to the fireplace at my parents for christmas, hope the heat from the fireplace didn't do any damage to the amplifier.

IMG_1206.jpeg
IMG_1205.jpeg
 
Just looking at the individual measured results of the 22 and 23 cab the 22 looks to have quite a bit more bass, are there any graph showing them together in a single graph so I can monitor the differences in response a little easier? I'm often listening at low spl in my apartment and would probably enjoy the lower extending cabinet more.

Also, how important is recessing the drivers on these speakers? It's hard to create recessions for such small drivers with my router unless I build or buy a specific jig.

Would the baffle dimension create any problems if the speakers are made out of 22mm material rather than 18mm, being total 8mm wider and taller (to keep internal volume the same)? I can round off the edges with my router if it would benefit and get the baffle closer to original size.
 
Just looking at the individual measured results of the 22 and 23 cab the 22 looks to have quite a bit more bass, are there any graph showing them together in a single graph so I can monitor the differences in response a little easier? I'm often listening at low spl in my apartment and would probably enjoy the lower extending cabinet more.

Also, how important is recessing the drivers on these speakers? It's hard to create recessions for such small drivers with my router unless I build or buy a specific jig.

Would the baffle dimension create any problems if the speakers are made out of 22mm material rather than 18mm, being total 8mm wider and taller (to keep internal volume the same)? I can round off the edges with my router if it would benefit and get the baffle closer to original size.
I use the Kregg tool circle jig. This is my second diy speaker build. I have built a lot of subwoofers in comparison.
 
Also, how important is recessing the drivers on these speakers? It's hard to create recessions for such small drivers with my router unless I build or buy a specific jig.

Would the baffle dimension create any problems if the speakers are made out of 22mm material rather than 18mm, being total 8mm wider and taller (to keep internal volume the same)? I can round off the edges with my router if it would benefit and get the baffle closer to original size.
It is important to countersink the drivers.
You can get accessories or complete machines for 15-100 €/$, or alternatively something used.
You can also do a trick with several thin pieces of MDF or (aircraft) plywood and use a jigsaw to cleanly cut the holes out of thin panels and glue them to the front. But it's not really worth it.

I would either extend the housing to the back or downwards and leave the front panel as it is.
 
It is important to countersink the drivers.
You can get accessories or complete machines for 15-100 €/$, or alternatively something used.
You can also do a trick with several thin pieces of MDF or (aircraft) plywood and use a jigsaw to cleanly cut the holes out of thin panels and glue them to the front. But it's not really worth it.

I would either extend the housing to the back or downwards and leave the front panel as it is.
Thank you Roland, will look into if I can use my router and find a way to recess smaller holes. I read in a YouTube video about it that if I build my own jig it's not possible to make circles smaller than the baseplate of the router (the dimensions of the screws which holds the baseplate). I will check my router tomorrow.

Okay, got it with the dimensions. Thank you!
 
I use the Kregg tool circle jig. This is my second diy speaker build. I have built a lot of subwoofers in comparison.
Thanks, will check it out! I've built a lot of speakers too but I've mostly cut holes for drivers using my jigsaw without any recessing thus far. My router is "full size" (not one of those smaller ones) and great for rounding of edges, but wirh the included rig for circles I think I can cut nothing less than about 10", kinda limited me thinks. Will see if I can build some jig first or look into other alternatives.
 
Will see if I can build some jig first or look into other alternatives.
The most common circle jig is probably the Jasper Jig. Since most drivers are measured in mm, I hear that one is particularly useful. (I've had the imperial one.) It can do close to 2" circle.

I've recently switched to the Milescraft circle guide kit.
 
Just looking at the individual measured results of the 22 and 23 cab the 22 looks to have quite a bit more bass, are there any graph showing them together in a single graph so I can monitor the differences in response a little easier? I'm often listening at low spl in my apartment and would probably enjoy the lower extending cabinet more.

Also, how important is recessing the drivers on these speakers? It's hard to create recessions for such small drivers with my router unless I build or buy a specific jig.

Would the baffle dimension create any problems if the speakers are made out of 22mm material rather than 18mm, being total 8mm wider and taller (to keep internal volume the same)? I can round off the edges with my router if it would benefit and get the baffle closer to original size.
Thicker material shouldn't be a problem as long as you keep de outer baffle dimensions and the internal box volume the same. This would mean you have to build a deeper cabinet to maintain the same internal vomume
 
Thanks, will check it out! I've built a lot of speakers too but I've mostly cut holes for drivers using my jigsaw without any recessing thus far. My router is "full size" (not one of those smaller ones) and great for rounding of edges, but wirh the included rig for circles I think I can cut nothing less than about 10", kinda limited me thinks. Will see if I can build some jig first or look into other alternatives.
Its not intuitively obvious, but a jig can make holes smaller than the baseplate. The "price" you pay for small circles is that the pivot point on the jig is underneath the router baseplate, which adds a small degree of difficulty to a jig design. The Milescraft jig mentioned above, which I also own/use (with a full size router), solves this by having a sort of quick-release secondary baseplate you attach to the router. The pivot screw can then fasten the jig to the work piece before the router "snaps" into place above the pivot screw. Simpler jigs may use a small nail or pin as the pivot, and so for small circles you must limit its extension above the work piece to be = or less than the jig thickness so it doesn't interfere with the router. In those cases, once the pin is place on the piece, you may need to semi-blindly try to "land" the jig in the right spot onto the pin, since the router may obscure any potential view.

Cutting the "outer" hole (ie, a 104mm hole 4mm deep in the case of the tweeter) will likely require multiple passes of decreasing diameter (if you're using a 1/4" cutter) to create an appropriate width rebate/rabbet "shelf". But eventually you'll need to cut the inner hole (77mm in case of tweeter) and this presents a challenge, since if you cut all the way through to the other side, the inner circle scrap (with the pivot point) will ultimately become detached from the panel and the router can then easily move off into places you don't want it to go. A couple choices to cope with this (or hybrid of the two): Cut this circle just deep enough to leave a mm or two material in place below the cut, or cut three portions of the circle (say 110 degree each) which would leave three "spokes" holding the material. At this point hand tools can be used to finish the penetration.

Even with a jig, getting the circle precisely the correct diameter and the precisely correct rabbet/rebate depth is somewhat challenging. Definitely refine your technique and verify dimensions on scrap material before cutting the real baffle panel. Its a necessary skill for decent DIY speakers, because there are meaningful negative consequences to the drivers not being properly flush with the baffle. A jigsaw may suffice for simple mounting in a crude subwoofer, but decent speaker baffles are not in the jigsaw domain. ;)
 
Its not intuitively obvious, but a jig can make holes smaller than the baseplate. The "price" you pay for small circles is that the pivot point on the jig is underneath the router baseplate, which adds a small degree of difficulty to a jig design. The Milescraft jig mentioned above, which I also own/use (with a full size router), solves this by having a sort of quick-release secondary baseplate you attach to the router. The pivot screw can then fasten the jig to the work piece before the router "snaps" into place above the pivot screw. Simpler jigs may use a small nail or pin as the pivot, and so for small circles you must limit its extension above the work piece to be = or less than the jig thickness so it doesn't interfere with the router. In those cases, once the pin is place on the piece, you may need to semi-blindly try to "land" the jig in the right spot onto the pin, since the router may obscure any potential view.

Cutting the "outer" hole (ie, a 104mm hole 4mm deep in the case of the tweeter) will likely require multiple passes of decreasing diameter (if you're using a 1/4" cutter) to create an appropriate width rebate/rabbet "shelf". But eventually you'll need to cut the inner hole (77mm in case of tweeter) and this presents a challenge, since if you cut all the way through to the other side, the inner circle scrap (with the pivot point) will ultimately become detached from the panel and the router can then easily move off into places you don't want it to go. A couple choices to cope with this (or hybrid of the two): Cut this circle just deep enough to leave a mm or two material in place below the cut, or cut three portions of the circle (say 110 degree each) which would leave three "spokes" holding the material. At this point hand tools can be used to finish the penetration.

Even with a jig, getting the circle precisely the correct diameter and the precisely correct rabbet/rebate depth is somewhat challenging. Definitely refine your technique and verify dimensions on scrap material before cutting the real baffle panel. Its a necessary skill for decent DIY speakers, because there are meaningful negative consequences to the drivers not being properly flush with the baffle. A jigsaw may suffice for simple mounting in a crude subwoofer, but decent speaker baffles are not in the jigsaw domain. ;)
Thanks! Many good tips here, some of it I don't fully understand but I will read again and try to understand and ask if I have any question.
 
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