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Small 2-way speakers with linear on-axis and power response characteristics (Scan Speak and SB Acoustics drivers). H&V off-axis measurements included

tktran303 said:
He's the designer of XMachina, a great automatic passive crossover designer. Does the AI even know why it does what it does? ;)

xmachina-ai.blogspot.com

About XMachina

XMachina is a passive crossover designer. XMachina works unassisted. Just tell XMachina your goals, load your drivers characteristics and ...
xmachina-ai.blogspot.com xmachina-ai.blogspot.com
Click to expand...
It's not actually AI (the website name is a bit misleading). It's more of an optimization algorithm. All it knows is solving equations and comparing the results to given targets. And so on in the loop.
 
in response to XMechanik: "Filter design. The software apparently needed a 2uF capacitor which is not on the E12 list. It was assembled connecting two values of E12 in series: 2.7uF and 6.8uF.":
1. Testing if 2.2 uF is audible from 2 uF is recommended.
2. Two 1 uF in paralel gives also 2uF and is likely a cheaper solution.
 
Bach said:
in response to XMechanik: "Filter design. The software apparently needed a 2uF capacitor which is not on the E12 list. It was assembled connecting two values of E12 in series: 2.7uF and 6.8uF.":
1. Testing if 2.2 uF is audible from 2 uF is recommended.
2. Two 1 uF in paralel gives also 2uF and is likely a cheaper solution.
Click to expand...
There is a checkbox in the job configuration that tells XMachina to minimize filters price but it was not used (it requires entering price lists with all components that can be used). Instead I've used standard E12 series without the price column, so for the algorithm any 2 capacitors seemed to be the same in terms of costs.

Implementing the filters I used single 2uF capacitor of course, which is widely available and inexpensive even though it belongs to the E24 series.
 
Gringoaudio1 said:
Close to $400 Cdn for parts at Solen in Montreal. But with those measurements I would try it!
Click to expand...
Good luck!
Just note that there is a slight error in the external dimensions given in the first post (should be HxWxD: 290x174x263mm). Unfortunately, I am unable to edit this post. I'm attaching some sketches, maybe they will be useful.
front.pngside.pngtop_bottom.pngrear.png
front and rear panel: 174x290mm
side panels: 227x290mm
top and bottom panel: 138x227mm
 
Kwesi said:
Really cool project! There are some, well, exotic ideas in the crossover but the result works and measures excellent.
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Thank you! I do not hesitate to implement exotic filters if measurements and simulations give hope for a good sound.
 
I think I'll have to try and give xmachina a shot at figuring out a 3 way xover for my speakers. Looks quite interesting.

This and the better "cnote" you shared look great, might have to give the other one a try as I have the drivers on me and have some left over baltic birch. Between the two speakers you shared, do you have a preference for one?
 
badspeakerdesigner said:
I think I'll have to try and give xmachina a shot at figuring out a 3 way xover for my speakers. Looks quite interesting.

This and the better "cnote" you shared look great, might have to give the other one a try as I have the drivers on me and have some left over baltic birch. Between the two speakers you shared, do you have a preference for one?
Click to expand...
They are generally of the same character for me, balanced and transparent. "C-note like", i.e. Mechano22 has a bit more extension on the LF side (f6 40Hz vs 47Hz) and a few dB lower spl. Mechano23 gives slightly more details and space.
 
This software is very cool, but I am so so bad at using it so far lol.

Two things I've run into. I set the target spl and use follow woofer, but when I go to run the designer task, the target spl appears to be wayyyy above both the woofer and tweeter in the project and it doesn't figure anything good out.

I also don't understand the angle multiplier number at all so I'm stuck there trying to import the off axis data. I'm just using rs180 and nd25fw frd and zma from parts express, just for funsies. Those only got to 45 degrees, I usually measure to 90 myself but yeah.
 
For the money and complexity this build measures really well. Looking at measurements alone, there are much more expensive bookshelves that don't reach this level. One could ask for more bass, but I would advise that one to get a sub and stop whining. This is a really nice contribution, thanks for sharing it.
 
badspeakerdesigner said:
This software is very cool, but I am so so bad at using it so far lol.

Two things I've run into. I set the target spl and use follow woofer, but when I go to run the designer task, the target spl appears to be wayyyy above both the woofer and tweeter in the project and it doesn't figure anything good out.

I also don't understand the angle multiplier number at all so I'm stuck there trying to import the off axis data. I'm just using rs180 and nd25fw frd and zma from parts express, just for funsies. Those only got to 45 degrees, I usually measure to 90 myself but yeah.
Click to expand...
It's hard to tell what's the problem with the target. You can attach your design file or send it to [email protected] so I can have look.

As for the angle multiplier, for Dayton files use the default value (1). For angle id use a constant string of characters that are just before the angle value in the file name. I case of Dayton rs180 it's enough to enter "@".
 
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kemmler3D said:
For the money and complexity this build measures really well. Looking at measurements alone, there are much more expensive bookshelves that don't reach this level. One could ask for more bass, but I would advise that one to get a sub and stop whining. This is a really nice contribution, thanks for sharing it.
Click to expand...
Thanks :). It remains to be hoped that my home made measurements and processing are correct. And even if they are, it have to taken into account that these filters were tailored to my specific driver copies. The question remains, would these characteristics be still good with drivers from a different lot?
 
XMechanik said:
The question remains, would these characteristics be still good with drivers from a different lot?
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That's a really good question. But case in point, if you look at the Focal monitor review that was posted today, your measurements look better to my eye, at ~1/4 the price! I guess the whole "DIY is dead, you can't beat commercial dollar-for-dollar" narrative is being challenged here.
 
kemmler3D said:
That's a really good question. But case in point, if you look at the Focal monitor review that was posted today, your measurements look better to my eye, at ~1/4 the price! I guess the whole "DIY is dead, you can't beat commercial dollar-for-dollar" narrative is being challenged here.
Click to expand...

Eh, kali lp6 don't cost much more than this bookshelf.
 
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