Slim AVRs

[Macor]

I am looking for an AVR for music, TV and movies that fits in a 15cm high cabinet, which as I have learned, very much reduces my options.
Currently I have a pair of Heco Argon 30s, but due to my wide couch (~2,20m at 2,80m listening distance) I want to add a center, making it a 3.0 setup. Maybe something like a Nubert CS-64 as it is not too high. The chance of finding the matching center to these 26 year-old speakers is very slim. Also it probably isn't very good from a dispersion standpoint.
No subwoofer for now because it's an apartment which means the volume will also never be very high. I do plan on a 5.1 system in the future once I have the space. Speakers may also change in the future.
My current main source is a Apple TV 4k Gen 3, but I may add a console or mini PC in the future, so support for standards like HDMI 2.1, HDR10+ etc. would be preferable, but I can also just connect those things to the TV and use eARC.
My question is, are there any decent AVRs that fits that profile?
So far I have found the Marantz Cinema 70s (or its ancestors), the JBL MA 510/710, and the Anthem MRX SLM.
Now the earlier two had less than stellar reviews from amir and the latter is significantly more expensive where I live (1600€ vs 500-700€).
Currently I think the Marantz is the best candidate. Not only does it support pretty much everything (except better room correction), but if I do upgrade to more or better speakers in the future, I can use its pre-outs to take some load off of it and it still remains a useful piece of kit. And right now my room and speakers will probably limit the sound quality more than the amp.

But I wanted to ask the experts, is my line of reasoning correct, or am I either missing a avr, or just completely on the wrong path with my justification for getting a center?
There are many stereo amps that small, but I would hate for only one position on the couch to have good audio when watching stuff.
I know I have neither the room nor the budget for super Hi-Fi, but I want to make the most out of it with what I have.

P.S. Since this is my first post, please yell at me if I did something wrong.

 

[Marc v E]

Welcome here on ASR.

In my experience an avr is an excellent choice for a hifi system because of the eq possibilities and sub out.
When you also use it for tv, games and movies it becomes the obvious choice. Hdmi connectivity, setting delay in audio to sync with the tv are the features you'd really appreciate and that are hard to find in hifi products.

Having a center channel is also a good idea to make speech in movies easier to hear.

I will check if I can find some slim avrs, but generally speaking my experience is that avrs that by SNR measure not great, perform quite well in real life due to a sub and a frequency response that is eq-ed to the room and listening position.

 

[JeffS7444]

Don't skimp on the center channel: IMO, it's the single most important speaker in a cinema sound system. If you wish to save money, the surround and Atmos height speakers are better places to do it.

I am personally interested in the higher-spec JBLs, which support Dirac Live. But DL and an approved measurement microphone are an additional expense. I am also interested in JBL for it's Class D amplification (less weight, less heat)

The reason I haven't purchased the JBL is because there's nothing wrong with my Marantz NR-1608, except for occasionally needing to clean the headphone jack. Mine is ~8 years old, but in perfect condition. It's Class AB amplifiers only generate a mild amount of warmth, but on hot summer nights, the AVR + TV can make my small apartment noticeably warmer.

 

[Macor]

Welcome here on ASR.

In my experience an avr is an excellent choice for a hifi system because of the eq possibilities and sub out.
When you also use it for tv, games and movies it becomes the obvious choice. Hdmi connectivity, setting delay in audio to sync with the tv are the features you'd really appreciate and that are hard to find in hifi products.

Having a center channel is also a good idea to make speech in movies easier to hear.

I will check if I can find some slim avrs, but generally speaking my experience is that avrs that by SNR measure not great, perform quite well in real life due to a sub and a frequency response that is eq-ed to the room and listening position.

Thank you for the warm welcome
I must admit most of the measurements in the test went way over my head, but the verdicts were damning. But in the end I have very specific requirements and I am not an enthusiast, so I wanted to get some more opinions and preferably experiences.

 

[Macor]

Don't skimp on the center channel: IMO, it's the single most important speaker in a cinema sound system. If you wish to save money, the surround and Atmos height speakers are better places to do it.

I am personally interested in the higher-spec JBLs, which support Dirac Live. But DL and an approved measurement microphone are an additional expense. I am also interested in JBL for it's Class D amplification (less weight, less heat)

The reason I haven't purchased the JBL is because there's nothing wrong with my Marantz NR-1608, except for occasionally needing to clean the headphone jack. Mine is ~8 years old, but in perfect condition. It's Class AB amplifiers only generate a mild amount of warmth, but on hot summer nights, the AVR + TV can make my small apartment noticeably warmer.

Is the Nubert CS-64 not a good center? To me it looked promising being a 3-way design instead of the "classic" MTM. Especially since I am looking for a very wide dispersion.
The higher-spec JBLs look really good, although sadly amir wasn't happy with the MA 7100HP at all.
My problem is the 15 cm height requirement, so while the 7100HP would fit, it would leave just 1,5 cm of space at the top which doesn't seem promising from a cooling perspective.
Also it is slightly more expensive than the C70 and I don't know if it is really better. Can you enlighten me?

 

[Marc v E]

Is the Nubert CS-64 not a good center? To me it looked promising being a 3-way design instead of the "classic" MTM. Especially since I am looking for a very wide dispersion.
The higher-spec JBLs look really good, although sadly amir wasn't happy with the MA 7100HP at all.
My problem is the 15 cm height requirement, so while the 7100HP would fit, it would leave just 1,5 cm of space at the top which doesn't seem promising from a cooling perspective.
Also it is slightly more expensive than the C70 and I don't know if it is really better. Can you enlighten me?

From my experience and what I heard from others, I cannot tell avrs apart when listening without seeing which is which.

Regarding avrs, some do notice the effects of better eq capabilities, like audyssey MultiEq xt 32 over audyssey MultiEq due to having more taps iirc to eq the bass. Similar with having more subs than 1 for a smooth bass response; some avrs have 2 or even 4 subs out. (Dacs dont matter, amps only if they run out of steam because you have a really big room or hard to drive speakers.)

What you will really notice is getting a good center speaker (or sub(s) at a later stage).

 

[staticV3]

There are a handful of surround sound AVRs under 15cm in height: https://geizhals.de/?cat=hifirec&xf=10187_*150&pagesize=100&sort=p&promode=true

Mostly JBL/Pioneer/Marantz, with a few oddball models like the Block Elements, Canton Smart Amp, and Anthem MRX SLM.

To get the best sound quality, I'd look for something that supports MultEQ XT32 to run @OCA's GSonic tool with, like the Marantz Cinema 70s.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

Marantz, but also yamaha and sony 5.1 seem to fit the size requirement for traditional AVRs. Searching on mini avr 5.1 yields smaller options.

Remember ventilation!

 

[Macor]

There are a handful of surround sound AVRs under 15cm in height: https://geizhals.de/?cat=hifirec&xf=10187_*150&pagesize=100&sort=p&promode=true

Mostly JBL/Pioneer/Marantz, with a few oddball models like the Block Elements, Canton Smart Amp, and Anthem MRX SLM.

To get the best sound quality, I'd look for something that supports MultEQ XT32 to run @OCA's GSonic tool with, like the Marantz Cinema 70s.

Thanks for the heads-up, never heard about GSonic, is it just better room correction?
As far as I know the C70 only supports MultEQ, not XT nor XT32. I will take a look at the other brands, but sadly quite a few of those only do 2.x.
How good is the Pioneer MCACC, not that it really matters since sadly all of their models are 148 mm high?

 

[Macor]

Marantz, but also yamaha and sony 5.1 seem to fit the size requirement for traditional AVRs. Searching on mini avr 5.1 yields smaller options.

Remember ventilation!

Yeah, ventilation is why I wouldn't get e.g. a JBL MA7100HP. While it does fit, it leaves just 1,5 cm of space. I think with 5 cm above the Marantz I will be fine, worst case I add a small fan for circulation.

 

[Apesbrain]

If you're certain that 5.1 is the max you'll ever need, the Marantz NR1510 is a cost-effective option.

 

[Berwhale]

@Macor - Welcome to ASR! - There is a very short list of 'Slim AVRs' maintained on Reddit (under Non Standard AVR's' near the bottom of the post) :

https://www.reddit.com/r/HTBuyingGuides/comments/1jgn555/product_recommendations_audiovideo_receivers

 

[Macor]

If you're certain that 5.1 is the max you'll ever need, the Marantz NR1510 is a cost-effective option.

That is also one of my candidates, especially if I accept that I will have to connect 4k/120 or HDR10+ sources to the TV instead of the AVR and hope all audio makes it through eARC. It's available used for 300-400€ where I am at, which is barely expensive enough to make me wonder if I will regret not spending the 250€ extra to get the C70 in the long run. Do you know if they changed anything significant about the sound (dac, amps, etc.) between 1510 and C70?

 

[Marc v E]

That is also one of my candidates, especially if I accept that I will have to connect 4k/120 or HDR10+ sources to the TV instead of the AVR and hope all audio makes it through eARC. It's available used for 300-400€ where I am at, which is barely expensive enough to make me wonder if I will regret not spending the 250€ extra to get the C70 in the long run. Do you know if they changed anything significant about the sound (dac, amps, etc.) between 1510 and C70?

I would really recommend to use 1 hub for connections. The reason is audio delays that you can keep in 1 device. The tv will otherwise add a delay to sources connected to the tv, that are then routed to the avr. Other sources that are directly connected to the avr will have lower audio delay times. This may make a mess of getting video to sync with audio correctly. I would really advice you to use 1 hub for all connections, 1 place where you set delays and do eq, the avr.

 

[JeffS7444]

Is the Nubert CS-64 not a good center?

I'm not familiar with that product.

Also it is slightly more expensive than the C70 and I don't know if it is really better. Can you enlighten me?

For you, maybe not. For me, possibly yes, because I'd be spending an additional 400 Euros for a Dirac Live license and measurement microphone, which ought to allow for more precise room correction with the JBL.

So why haven't I upgraded already? Because my Marantz (with the entry-level Audyssey room correction with it's 4 parametric filters) already sounds very good, and after 8 years, it hardly seems old or obsolete.

 

[Macor]

I'm not familiar with that product.

For you, maybe not. For me, possibly yes, because I'd be spending an additional 400 Euros for a Dirac Live license and measurement microphone, which ought to allow for more precise room correction with the JBL.

So why haven't I upgraded already? Because my Marantz (with the entry-level Audyssey room correction with it's 4 parametric filters) already sounds very good, and after 8 years, it hardly seems old or obsolete.

The Cinema 70s Series 2 coming in October will also have Dirac

 

[Mr. Widget]

That is also one of my candidates, especially if I accept that I will have to connect 4k/120 or HDR10+ sources to the TV instead of the AVR and hope all audio makes it through eARC. It's available used for 300-400€ where I am at, which is barely expensive enough to make me wonder if I will regret not spending the 250€ extra to get the C70 in the long run. Do you know if they changed anything significant about the sound (dac, amps, etc.) between 1510 and C70?

I specified the Marantz NR1510 on a project because of its slim size. In general, I was pretty disappointed with it. The amplifier is extremely limited in usable power and the EQ and other features were bare bones. Most Denon and Marantz AVRs are fine, but this one is slim in stature, price, and performance.

 

[JeffS7444]

The Cinema 70s Series 2 coming in October will also have Dirac

Not included in the purchase price of the receiver: You'll need to purchase a software license directly from Dirac, in addition to a a suitable measurement microphone.