Singxer’s new flagship power amplifier

[Old_School_Brad]

On the one hand, the fans are so quiet that you can't hear them, especially larger fans (80-150mm), and on the other hand, these fans would only be needed at a volume where the noise of the fan would be quieter than that of the devices anyway, so it doesn't matter, no matter which way you look at it.

But the sight of a 150mm fan in a power amplifier would make most people gasp and their hearts flutter

True. Even without music playing, the two fans in my PA power amp are barely audible, even with my face right next to it. Naturally, they’re completely unnoticeable when music is playing.

Plus, they only start spinning after about 10 minutes of quite loud playback.

 

[tom.chen]

Today's silent fans can indeed achieve the goal of making no sound

 

[Michal]

Today's silent fans can indeed achieve the goal of making no sound

Of course, but a lot depends on how the fan is mounted and whether the vibrations are adequately damped so that they do not affect the electronics.

 

[Jon L]

Of course, but a lot depends on how the fan is mounted and whether the vibrations are adequately damped so that they do not affect the electronics.

And the fact fans are wearable items that will develop noise eventually and require replacement. (Typing as listening to my computer fan that has become noisy).

 

[Roland68]

Of course, but a lot depends on how the fan is mounted and whether the vibrations are adequately damped so that they do not affect the electronics.

And the fact fans are wearable items that will develop noise eventually and require replacement. (Typing as listening to my computer fan that has become noisy).

It just depends on whether cheap junk or high-quality products are used.
High-quality fans last at least 10-20 years under such circumstances and remain reliably quiet. There is no need for special mounting, they are inaudible anyway.
We use such fans in industrial devices and this durability is a matter of experience.
Even with HP business PCs and Macs, I have not had to replace any fans due to problems or noise, even with 14-year-old devices.

But cheap PC fans, and by that I also mean "expensive" products from the modding sector, are one reason why so many people are afraid of fans in HiFi devices. Completely unnecessary with any good manufacturer.

 

[Michal]

It just depends on whether cheap junk or high-quality products are used.
High-quality fans last at least 10-20 years under such circumstances and remain reliably quiet. There is no need for special mounting, they are inaudible anyway.
We use such fans in industrial devices and this durability is a matter of experience.
Even with HP business PCs and Macs, I have not had to replace any fans due to problems or noise, even with 14-year-old devices.

But cheap PC fans, and by that I also mean "expensive" products from the modding sector, are one reason why so many people are afraid of fans in HiFi devices. Completely unnecessary with any good manufacturer.

Cheap or expensive they all produce vibrations that need to be isolated.

 

[Roland68]

Cheap or expensive they all produce vibrations that need to be isolated.

Then you have obviously never worked with high-quality fans. And it's not about cheap or expensive, but about quality. And that is usually cheaper than trendy PC fans.
If a fan like this is unbalanced, it will always damage the bearings and destroy them in the long run. Fans that generate vibrations break much more quickly. And that's exactly where the opinion comes from that fans are loud and don't last long.
The secret is precision casting, precision post-processing and dynamic balancing in production.
Put a fan upright on the table, regardless of whether it is 30mm or 150mm. After starting up, the fan must run smoothly, without wandering, rattling or making any other noises. If not = garbage.

Over 35 years ago, Papst was able to build absolutely quiet fans that also had absolutely little vibration.
There is much more choice today and it would be ridiculous if such fans had to vibrate. You can get absolutely vibration-free operation with every quadcopter, turbine, etc., but not with a simple fan that has hardly any mass? Really ridiculous.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Cheap or expensive they all produce vibrations that need to be isolated.

Not true.

 

[Jon L]

There is much more choice today and it would be ridiculous if such fans had to vibrate. You can get absolutely vibration-free operation with every quadcopter, turbine, etc., but not with a simple fan

Well, I used Noctua quiet fans last couple of times in my PC, but both times, they developed excessive noise after only about 3-4 years. The fact they are the smaller 80mm fans does not help. So I would appreciate info on which fans would be more reliable and longer lasting!

 

[Honken]

Fluid dynamic bearing (FDB) fans are generally the longest lasting. As far as I know, Noctua have used this type of bearing for years in their fans, and they've recently released a new implementation of this type of bearing (the SSO2) which promises improved longevity.

If your fans develop noise issues after only 4 years, you should be able to get those replaced under warranty from Noctua - they offer a 6 year warranty on their fans.

 

[Matt_Holland]

Is there a subwoofer output planned for this amplifier version? For many, a subwoofer is a must.
How will volume control be implemented? If on an integrated circuit, please do it on Muses 72323.
Best regards.

What is the obsession with power amplifiers providing subwoofer pre-amplifier outputs?

It’s a high quality power amplifier. If you need a dedicated sub-out get a suitable pre-amp.

 

[Jon L]

If your fans develop noise issues after only 4 years, you should be able to get those replaced under warranty from Noctua - they offer a 6 year warranty on their fans.

Well, I did contact Noctua who made me break my old fan and send photos. Then they sent me a what looks like a refurbished fan that was not even the same model and lacked PWM like the one I was using. Not impressed with Noctua..

 

[Michal]

What is the obsession with power amplifiers providing subwoofer pre-amplifier outputs?

It’s a high quality power amplifier. If you need a dedicated sub-out get a suitable pre-amp.

The question was about the integrated amplifier, not the power amplifier. Read with comprehension.

 

[Matt_Holland]

The question was about the integrated amplifier, not the power amplifier. Read with comprehension.

Apologies.

And thanks for the advice.

 

[Michal]

Hi @tom.chen
When can we expect the integrated amplifier in sale? I really want to listen to it before american politicians raise hell and destroy my dreams ( I live in Poland Inc.).
Best regards

 

[tom.chen]

This will take some time because the power supply is difficult to design.

 

[Michal]

This will take some time because the power supply is difficult to design.

So it won't be dual mono? I thought you would just put two SA-90s in a common housing and only appropriately adapt the already very high-class preamplifier (SA-1 v2) by supplementing it with additional inputs and ofcourse a sub out.
Best regards

 

[pma]

SA-90


Basic indicators
Rated power: 100 watts/8 ohms, 200 watts/4 ohms
Maximum power: 135 watts/8 ohms, 226 watts/4 ohms @1% THD+N

Hi @tom.chen , your amplifier looks good. Could you please say more about the rated power, 90W/8R and 180W/4R. Is that defined according to some known standards and regulations (IEC, FTC), how long time can the amplifier give the rated power (at least 5 minutes) and in which frequency range, 20Hz-20kHz? If your answer is Yes in both cases and it will be confirmed by an independent test, then you might have a good argument against the competition.

From Audiophonics

 

[Roland68]

So it won't be dual mono? I thought you would just put two SA-90s in a common housing and only appropriately adapt the already very high-class preamplifier (SA-1 v2) by supplementing it with additional inputs and ofcourse a sub out.
Best regards

And it is precisely for these requirements that an integrated amplifier makes little sense.
The manufacturer has little potential to save costs with a real dual mono setup, and large and heavy packages are exponentially more expensive to ship, which also has a significant impact on the final price.
There are several manufacturers who have tried exactly this balancing act, but either the integrated amplifier was significantly more expensive, or the entire device was significantly castrated, often even both.

Customers should finally understand that the usual 2.1 SUB outs are unusable in 95-98% of amplifiers.
It would be much better if @tom.chen installed preamplifier outputs (preferably 2 x) and power amplifier inputs. For normal operation, the pre outputs would have to be connected to the power amplifier inputs via bridges or short cables.

But now the customer would have the opportunity to decide for themselves how high-quality their 2.1 or 2.2 configuration would be and the volume control would be retained for the entire system.
He could now connect any analogue or digital solution for 2.1 or 2.2 in between, MiniDSP, the t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini (Pro), FIR Convolver, various DSPs (e.g. Wondom DSP modules under 50 $/€), 2.1 crossovers, subwoofer crossovers (also from the car sector from 20 $/€)
That would be an intelligent and useful solution for everyone that only generates minimal costs.

 

[Michal]

if @tom.chen installed preamplifier outputs (preferably 2 x)

This solution is also good provided that the signal at the outputs is available at the same time and is taken after the volume and balanced control.