Singxer’s new flagship power amplifier

[Speedskater]

"@tom.chen" last visited the forum, August 31.

 

[Zwepp]

I see you don't understand what good manners are. NRN

And who are you again..? Did it ever occur to you that someone might be busy doing other things? Maybe he's on holiday, sick at home or something else. Drop the attitude please.

Apologies for the offtopic rant.

 

[Roland68]

@tom.chen
Hi,
Will there be a stereo version too?

What exactly would be the point or advantage of this?
Together, both monoblocks have a standard rack size of less than 44cm, so there is no difference in size to a stereo version.
- Stronger crosstalk
- With a shared power supply, costs are hardly lower, but crosstalk is even stronger
- The larger housing would have to be much more stable and would therefore be heavier and more expensive
- An amplifier this large and heavy (approx. 18-20 kg) requires a lot of packaging and would cause shipping costs to explode.

 

[TonyJZX]

my expereince with that is a 25kg shipping box with a 20kg amp inside which was effective 50cm x 50cm x ~3-4ru tall now costs something like $200 usd to ship from southern china to US or western EU or CAN AUS etc. you get the idea

it was about half that just pre covid

i know this because its the amp i'm using now

i think this dual mono setup should be a lot smaller than this? but the china market seems to gravitate towards smaller footprint monos instead

 

[Roland68]

my expereince with that is a 25kg shipping box with a 20kg amp inside which was effective 50cm x 50cm x ~3-4ru tall now costs something like $200 usd to ship from southern china to US or western EU or CAN AUS etc. you get the idea

it was about half that just pre covid

i know this because its the amp i'm using now

i think this dual mono setup should be a lot smaller than this? but the china market seems to gravitate towards smaller footprint monos instead

Yes, international shipping has become significantly more expensive, especially for the manufacturers.
It is neither Class D nor does it have an SMPS, with the required large transformer and heat sink it is of a certain size. Also nice to see that despite the power they don't use parallel power transistors. Looks like a clean and well thought out design.

 

[Michal]

What exactly would be the point or advantage of this?
Together, both monoblocks have a standard rack size of less than 44cm, so there is no difference in size to a stereo version.
- Stronger crosstalk
- With a shared power supply, costs are hardly lower, but crosstalk is even stronger
- The larger housing would have to be much more stable and would therefore be heavier and more expensive
- An amplifier this large and heavy (approx. 18-20 kg) requires a lot of packaging and would cause shipping costs to explode.

Hi
Thank you for your reply.
I was hoping that the stereo version would have a lower price. Usually the stereo version is cheaper than two monoblocks but I understand your point of view in the fight for the best parameters, this market is becoming more and more demanding.
Best regards

 

[TonyJZX]

kinda have to see what the trends are and like class a/b stereo or stereo integrates even in a reduced size isnt popular there

small stereo class d or monos seems to be popular

 

[Zwepp]

As a manufacturer you can't please the whole crowd. To keep prices as low as possible, you'd need to produce in the largest quantities as possible. The more variations you produce, the lower the quantities will become. Produce a stereo amp and people will demand monoblocks for various reasons. Some of those reasons will be to power a center channel, the possibility to place the amps closer to the speakers, better channel separation, etc etc... If you can't produce both, I think it's best to stick with mono amps. They're also some sort of a hype right now.

 

[Roland68]

Hi
Thank you for your reply.
I was hoping that the stereo version would have a lower price. Usually the stereo version is cheaper than two monoblocks but I understand your point of view in the fight for the best parameters, this market is becoming more and more demanding.
Best regards

Mono blocks are usually more expensive because they are more complex and require two housings.
Cheaper means that it is also cheaper for the manufacturer.
- For example, due to cheaper construction and cheaper components
- For example, with Ice Power, only a slightly larger housing is needed to accommodate a second module, cheaper, lighter, less effort.
- For example, with Hypex and other amps with SMPS, both modules can be supplied from one power supply, slightly larger housing, cheaper, lighter, less effort.

 

[TonyJZX]

it comes down to price... its $700 each - i get that's more than many would even pay for a good a/b stereo integrated

isnt the Soncoz thing like $1,000? its pretty much all there is unless you want to go with even lesser known brands

 

[Zwepp]

it comes down to price... its $700 each - i get that's more than many would even pay for a good a/b stereo integrated

isnt the Soncoz thing like $1,000? its pretty much all there is unless you want to go with even lesser known brands

Is the Soncoz still available? Here in The Netherlands there hasn't been stock for a very long time now. Audiophonics.fr says it's discontinued. When it was available the price was € 1399,-.

 

[Roland68]

kinda have to see what the trends are and like class a/b stereo or stereo integrates even in a reduced size isnt popular there

small stereo class d or monos seems to be popular

Space is one reason. Small monoblocks or stereo amps fit well on the desk and the power supplies can be hidden.
Not everyone has the space or wants to set up a HiFi rack in the living room. With these small monoblocks or stereo amps, the entire HiFi system takes up no more space than 3-4 novels.

The important reason is probably the relatively low costs and prices. The TPA325x amplifiers in particular can be developed and manufactured much more cheaply than conventional amplifiers, especially transistor amplifiers. Optimization is also much easier. In addition, there are the small and much cheaper housings and very cheap external single rail switching power supplies.

The significantly higher efficiency with the low heat output could be a third reason. Even if these small devices can reach 40°, which is absolutely fine and does not limit their service life (keyword: unfounded heat hysteria), the heat output is much lower than with full-size amplifiers at 40°.

 

[BlakeHarris]

Wow, those are some impressive power figures! Any word on pricing and a release date? Also, what's the design philosophy behind it? Class D? I'm really curious to see what Singxer comes up with. Keep us posted!

 

[Roland68]

Wow, those are some impressive power figures! Any word on pricing and a release date? Also, what's the design philosophy behind it? Class D? I'm really curious to see what Singxer comes up with. Keep us posted!

Class A/B as already mentioned.
Search for Singxer SA-90 with Google, it is already available from dealers.

 

[Sokel]

110-120dB SINAD easy,seems like there will be one more AB at the very top of the chart.
What I would like to see is power figures with all loads and THD+N vs frequency vs power.

 

[ryanmh1]

kinda have to see what the trends are and like class a/b stereo or stereo integrates even in a reduced size isnt popular there

small stereo class d or monos seems to be popular

I think that "popular" is just what the usual ChiFi "project box" suspects can sell here in a one-offs shipped in from China. Tonewinner and Summit HiFi seem to have no problem selling big AB amps. But the circuit designs largely suck (presumably), so they aren't selling to the "objectivist" market. Once someone bridges that gap and sells a 250W/500W AB amp with decent measurements and meters for $1600, they'll have plenty of takers. But they need to import a container load to do that. You can't economically ship $60 pound plus amps from China as one-offs.

 

[Zwepp]

I think that "popular" is just what the usual ChiFi "project box" suspects can sell here in a one-offs shipped in from China. Tonewinner and Summit HiFi seem to have no problem selling big AB amps. But the circuit designs largely suck (presumably), so they aren't selling to the "objectivist" market. Once someone bridges that gap and sells a 250W/500W AB amp with decent measurements and meters for $1600, they'll have plenty of takers. But they need to import a container load to do that. You can't economically ship $60 pound plus amps from China as one-offs.

250/500 watts class A/B for $ 1600,-?? That's never gonna happen. The power supply alone would cost you more than that.

 

[BDWoody]

I see you don't understand what good manners are. NRN

Are you serious? Not sure why you feel you can just summon any one of our nearly 60,000 members and expect them to hop to a response, but that's really not very good manners.

 

[ryanmh1]

250/500 watts class A/B for $ 1600,-?? That's never gonna happen. The power supply alone would cost you more than that.

Not uncommon. ATI/Monoprice sell the US-built Monolith 2X for $1200. Pumps out 350W with a 500W dynamic. ToneWinner from China sells one with big huge VU meters on it and more claimed power than that for around $1500 shipped. Emotiva is selling the XPA-2 for $1300. That also hits about these numbers.

Easier to "fix" the "problems" in Class AB than Class D (to roughly quote Bruno Putzeys, who would know). Easy to beat Class D, if you get past meaningless nonsense like 1kHz SINAD on amps with no gain. My 25 year old Mackie smokes a Hypex at 15kHz. But most of the big ABs are not great, yet, except some high dollar stuff. No reason the high volume amps couldn't be, too.

 

[Michal]

Does anyone know what the input sensitivity of the SA-90 is?