Singing at 0.189 Hz - How is that even possible ?

[Jose Hidalgo]

Here's some proof : https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/lowest-vocal-note-by-a-male

I knew about Tim Storms and his amazing low voice. But acknowledging that he actually 'sung' or produced a 'note' at 0.189 Hz... as demonstrated by a measurement microphone and an acoustician... I still have trouble believing it. For starters, how can you sing notes that you can't even hear ?

I could totally buy that somebody's able to sing @20 Hz. But below that, and down to 0.189 Hz ??? There's something that really bothers me. I mean, in that case I could just breathe with my mouth 6 times per minute, and pretend that I'm making notes at 0.1 Hz. That would be right, wouldn't it ?

I'd like to understand the science behind this, IF there is any. Given that the Guinness Book says it, I hope they've got some serious evidence to prove it, right ? And if it's really true, then again... how is that even possible ?...

Comments welcome.

 

[voodooless]

Would be interesting to know the measurement procedure? It’s roughly a 5 second interval tone.. Sure, you might be able to slowly move your vocal cords, but how in hell would you pressurize the air to any meaningful SPL? Or possibly some modulation is used to get the low tone out? Seems rather suspect..

 

[eriksson]

He tricked them by slowly swinging the door behind him while singing.

 

[RayDunzl]

https://www.kwiq.com/videos/listen-to-the-singer-with-the-worlds-deepest-voice/

 

[dasdoing]

It's not actualy singing. there is a sound we all made as kids. don't know how to describe it, but it is pretty low frequency, it's just that there isn't realy energy down there.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Of course it's not singing. Singing implies that somebody "sings" and somebody "listens". So for humans, singing is limited to 20-20000 Hz.
Now if you are singing for dogs, that's another story. But even so, I doubt dogs can hear below 20 Hz. Not to mention 0.189 Hz.

 

[Cbdb2]

These 2 replies nail it.

"Dan Tuchler
A frequency of 0.189 Hz is the same as a pendulum with a period of 5.3 seconds. A compression wave in air every 5.3 seconds is not a sound, it's a soft breeze. This mis-interpretation of what constitutes a sound is damaging to Guinness' reputation. The equipment was mis-used and mis-interpreted. And yes, 0.189 Hz is 7 octaves below G0 but this is meaningless. You could just as easily say the earth's rotation is G -21: one day is 21 octaves below G0, but that doesn't mean anything about sound."

"Mark Sproson
If you stretch a rubber band tight and pluck with your finger, you can make it vibrate, much like human vocal folds do. The looser the rubber band the lower the note it makes, but there comes a point at which it's no longer tight enough to vibrate, and if you try to pluck with your finger it just flops around.
The same applies to the human voice - to make a sound at 0.189Hz your vocal folds would have to vibrate once every 5.2 seconds. It's just a quirk of the way the sound analyzer works that it registers this meaningless figure."

 

[dasdoing]

These 2 replies nail it.

"Dan Tuchler
A frequency of 0.189 Hz is the same as a pendulum with a period of 5.3 seconds. A compression wave in air every 5.3 seconds is not a sound, it's a soft breeze. This mis-interpretation of what constitutes a sound is damaging to Guinness' reputation. The equipment was mis-used and mis-interpreted. And yes, 0.189 Hz is 7 octaves below G0 but this is meaningless. You could just as easily say the earth's rotation is G -21: one day is 21 octaves below G0, but that doesn't mean anything about sound."

"Mark Sproson
If you stretch a rubber band tight and pluck with your finger, you can make it vibrate, much like human vocal folds do. The looser the rubber band the lower the note it makes, but there comes a point at which it's no longer tight enough to vibrate, and if you try to pluck with your finger it just flops around.
The same applies to the human voice - to make a sound at 0.189Hz your vocal folds would have to vibrate once every 5.2 seconds. It's just a quirk of the way the sound analyzer works that it registers this meaningless figure."

yep, wave your hand once a second and there is a 1Hz pressure wave.

here you can hear an older "8Hz"

there is a pressure wave of 8Hz, but it's not a tone.

and actualy the 20Hz myth is just that....below that we just hear pressure waves oscilations (if they are realy loud)

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

here you can hear an older "8Hz"

Not exactly. Allow me.

Of course we can't hear anything under 20 Hz or so (some of us can't even hear 20 Hz). What we hear in that video is a frequency that's clearly higher then 20 Hz. That frequency is MODULATED to 8 Hz. Like a vibrato if you prefer. But it's the frequency that we hear, not its modulation. When you modulate a frequency (A) by another frequency (B), B can be either higher than A, or lower than A. In this case, B (8 Hz) is lower than A (20, 30 or 40 Hz, we'd have to measure it), and we can only hear A. We don't "hear" B, we just notice that there is a modulation of A, 8 times per second.

So no, we are definitely not hearing 8 Hz.

 

[dasdoing]

Not exactly. Allow me.

Of course we can't hear anything under 20 Hz or so (some of us can't even hear 20 Hz). What we hear in that video is a frequency that's clearly higher then 20 Hz. That frequency is MODULATED to 8 Hz. Like a vibrato if you prefer. But it's the frequency that we hear, not its modulation. When you modulate a frequency (A) by another frequency (B), B can be either higher than A, or lower than A. In this case, B (8 Hz) is lower than A (20, 30 or 40 Hz, we'd have to measure it), and we can only hear A. We don't "hear" B, we just notice that there is a modulation of A, 8 times per second.

So no, we are definitely not hearing 8 Hz.

not sure what a modulation is.
just making clear, I didn't mean to say we can hear 8Hz in that video. I can't hear anything even near to 80Hz or so.

but let me ask: you are saying that whe we hear a pure 8Hz sine wave, what we are hearing is not the wave? if it is pure, what else is there to hear?

 

[dasdoing]

everybody heard below 20Hz before when opening a window in a car on a highway

 

[DVDdoug]

). What we hear in that video is a frequency that's clearly higher then 20 Hz. That frequency is MODULATED to 8 Hz. Like a vibrato if you prefer. But it's the frequency that we hear, not its modulation.

Right... I "heard" the "0.189Hz tone" on my laptop speakers which probably don't go below 200Hz.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

not sure what a modulation is.

Which is why I included a link in my previous post to the modulation definition. just click on the "modulation" word.

@doug: not sure of what you meant with your post. I said the same thing: we don't hear anything below 20 Hz, regardless of the equipment.

Also for the record, all speakers are capable of reproducing 20 Hz, because technically they can all vibrate 20 times per second. The question is rather "what loudness are they capable of at 20 Hz ?". And in the case of laptop speakers, the answer would be "not enough for that frequency to be heard by a human". That would be the real answer. A frequency response plot would clearly show that the 20 Hz of laptop speakers is reproduced 40 or 50 dB lower than, say, 200 Hz. Which is why it can't be heard.

All that assuming that there isn't a cutoff filter that prevents any low frequencies to be passed to the laptop speakers, but that's another story.

 

[charleski]

He’s managed to develop a stable ultra-low frequency oscillation in his vagal nerve, which drives the vocal cords via the recurrent laryngeal. This is not especially surprising, as oscillations in a similar frequency range have been reported in other motor systems (look at fig 1a). I don’t really see what the problem is.

 

[Chromatischism]

everybody heard below 20Hz before when opening a window in a car on a highway

Remind me to take the laptop and UMIK to the car next time I'm out.

 

[restorer-john]

Remind me to take the laptop and UMIK to the car next time I'm out.

It'll get blown out the window- don't do it.

 

[dasdoing]

Which is why I included a link in my previous post to the modulation definition. just click on the "modulation" word.

Sorry, I am from the www type of link generation lol. will look into it later

all speakers are capable of reproducing 20 Hz, because technically they can all vibrate 20 times per second.

yes, I is not hard to make a membrane oscilate 20 times per second. the problem is moving enough air

Remind me to take the laptop and UMIK to the car next time I'm out.

I suspect the mic wouldn't handle it. it's a lot of pressure


EDIT: turns out it allready has been meassured https://asa.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1121/2.0000097

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

In my very humble opinion it is BS masquerading as Science. As more knowledgeable people have noted, at this level it is not singing, any grunt could be measured to be low enough in frequency... And we're getting into fractional hertz where even body movements and physiological functions, could register as acoustic signal.

 

[q3cpma]

Guinness' reputation

I'm not sure it means the same for everyone. Unless everyone is sensible and aware that it is about sensationalist bullcrap to sell an inane book.

 

[dasdoing]

Guinness' reputation