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Sigberg Audio Saranna (fullrange, cardioid active floorstander) development thread

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sigbergaudio

sigbergaudio

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I don’t believe this is correct and localization down to around 40Hz is rather more typical for most folks ears. Not sure what research is out there to support this, only using my own listening experience.

Let's not go too far down this road (in that case let's start a different thread on this subject), but as @Steve81 is saying localization is not an issue (40hz is also too low even for that topic, but again that's a different subject), all the sound comes from the speakers.

So being omnidirectional is about how the sound spreads. Have a look at a couple of polar maps (pick something at random at Spinorama.org), and you will rarely see more than 3dB drop +/-180 at least up to 150hz.

Put differently; Up to 150-200hz (depending on the speaker design and baffle size) you can be directly behind the speaker and the bass level is still essentially identical to if you were right in front of it.
 
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sigbergaudio

sigbergaudio

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I am well aware, wasn‘t referring to omni, only localization. And you are missing my point. I am referring to the running cardioids down to 40Hz in the mains and @sigbergaudio brought up the 150-200 where localization starts, which I do not agree with. But this is based upon personal listening experience, I do not know if any research to support.

I have never mentioned localization.

You said "cardioid is beneficial down to around 40Hz, and then when the bass becomes non-directional(..)"
Based on this I understood your statement to be that bass is directional above 40hz.

Then I replied, that No, I do not agree, Bass is non-directional way earlier than 40hz, probably more like 150-200hz.
 
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sigbergaudio

sigbergaudio

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Still super-early days of course, but a few more measurements

400-20,000hz nearfield in-room, 15deg off-axis:
1701264323344.png




The same, 0-30-60:
1701264374986.png
 

Draki

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Even response below 100hz from just two speakers isn't something you can just fix by having them "designed properly". But of course, if you are lucky with the room and placement it is possible for a limited sweet spot, ref the 10-200hz graph in the first post of this thread. But in most rooms you will see at least one unfixable dip, and you will not have a similar response over a very large area.

And of course, for some a subwoofer just isn't an option, for whatever reason. That's one of the main reasons I'm looking into the speakers this thread is about. But a tower with something like dual 10" or dual 12" would simply be too big, too expensive and have a very limited audience. There would also be added complexity to the logistics of shipping and handling I'm just not prepared to work with right now. :)

Dual 8" is more than most towers have, and it's also important not to be blind to just the driver size. As mentioned these drivers are essentially subwoofer drivers, and will wipe the floor with most 8" you will find in traditional towers out there.

View attachment 329715
Nice driver. Wavecor?...
 

MKR

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I have never mentioned localization.

You said "cardioid is beneficial down to around 40Hz, and then when the bass becomes non-directional(..)"
Based on this I understood your statement to be that bass is directional above 40hz.

Then I replied, that No, I do not agree, Bass is non-directional way earlier than 40hz, probably more like 150-200hz.
We are saying the same thing conceptually, going in circles. The difference is we disagree on min localization freq. That’s all, now I stop the derailment, sorry about that :)
 
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sigbergaudio

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Nice driver. Wavecor?...

A different, newer version of that driver, but essentially yes.
 
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sigbergaudio

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I'm also looking to make this speaker as flexible as possible with regards to tonality. So in addition to having low end extension quite close to a subwoofer, you also have the benefit of adjusting the low end (again as you would with a subwoofer).

This will be achieved by a combination of opening/closing the port, and different presets. Haven't decided exactly how this will be configured yet, but conceptually something along these lines:

1701270408337.png


This should give you relatively good control over in-room tonality by simply opening/plugging the port combined with selecting preset (which is done by the press of a button at the back of the speaker).
 
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sigbergaudio

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I'm iterating on the design, and would welcome some feedback, both positive and negative, and feel free to add some comments/reflections on why you like/dislike it. :)

Note these are still quick sketches just to get an impression of how things may look. For instance, the drivers will obviously have black screws/bolts, not shiny ones as you may get an impression of in these sketches.

So this iteration has black baffle and back, while the sides are walnut veneer. The veneer also wraps around covering about 0.5 inches of the baffle, to better frame the front. I'm also thinking the grille should only cover the black part of the baffle, so you still see the walnut with the grille on.

Also note that the baffle is 26cm while the back is only 22cm, which means the sides will be slightly rounded as they curve in to meet the more narrow backside.
The narrowed backside also means the oversized rear port has changed to a more square form.

1701515842754-png.974833
 

Sokel

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I'm iterating on the design, and would welcome some feedback, both positive and negative, and feel free to add some comments/reflections on why you like/dislike it. :)

Note these are still quick sketches just to get an impression of how things may look. For instance, the drivers will obviously have black screws/bolts, not shiny ones as you may get an impression of in these sketches.

So this iteration has black baffle and back, while the sides are walnut veneer. The veneer also wraps around covering about 0.5 inches of the baffle, to better frame the front. I'm also thinking the grille should only cover the black part of the baffle, so you still see the walnut with the grille on.

Also note that the baffle is 26cm while the back is only 22cm, which means the sides will be slightly rounded as they curve in to meet the more narrow backside.
The narrowed backside also means the oversized rear port has changed to a more square form.

1701515842754-png.974833
Black screws (at least,if visible) and fancier grilles.

I'm not into that kind of wood at all,it seems to me like fake vintage but that's only me.

(as honest as it gets)

Covers for screws example:
 
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Matias

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Well, since you asked, how about not so blocky design? A slightly rounded or chamfered edge would make it more palatable imo. Same with the cuts.

Also I am a passive radiator guy all day, but I guess I am the exception since 99% are fine with ports.
 
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sigbergaudio

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Black screws (at least,if visible) and fancier grilles.

I'm not into that kind of wood at all,it seems to me like fake vintage but that's only me.

(as honest as it gets)

Yes, as I wrote, they will be black. Can you please elaborate on how a fancier grill looks to you? :)
 

dualazmak

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Looks very nice and attractive at least for me, even though I prefer more darker black-brown non-glare wood surface.:)

As I informed in my previous post #60, I would highly appreciate if you could start designing the (optional?) wide solid 4-point-level-adjustable metal base; again I myself prefer non-glare black baked paint with Chrome-plated large adjuster screws and spikes.
 
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sigbergaudio

sigbergaudio

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Well, since you asked, how about not so blocky design? A slightly rounded or chamfered edge would make it more palatable imo. Same with the cuts.

Also I am a passive radiator guy all day, but I guess I am the exception since 99% are fine with ports.

The ports will have chamfered edges similar to the Manta (and screws will also be black like they are here):
1701517219741.png



With regards to the edges, our SBS.1 speaker have a bit more rounded edges, but personally I think the sharper edges of the Manta looks even better. But that's subjective of course. :)

31.01-skraa_90858dde-6dba-44c2-8396-b0e308ac5f0b.png
SBS.1-black3_f1ace39b-2f9a-436e-a62c-3dd8550fe07d.png




Passive radiators:
That will increase the price quite a bit since this design would require four radiators, so that's not ideal, and doesn't necessarily improve anything soundwise either.
 
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sigbergaudio

sigbergaudio

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Looks very nice and attractive at least for me, even though I prefer more darker black-brown non-glare wood surface.:)

As I informed in my previous post #60, I would highly appreciate if you could start designing the (optional?) wide solid 4-point-level-adjustable metal base; again I myself prefer non-glare black baked paint with Chrome-plated large adjuster screws and spikes.

The wood will not be high gloss. Exact type and color is of course also not determined, it's merely an example.

Yes, base solution has yet to be determined. There are many optional directions for that. I have no idea how that will look yet.

1701517484662.png


1701517497109.png

1701517507710.png
 
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sigbergaudio

sigbergaudio

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Black screws (at least,if visible) and fancier grilles.

I'm not into that kind of wood at all,it seems to me like fake vintage but that's only me.

(as honest as it gets)

Covers for screws example:

With regards to wood; that's fair of course, and it is likely both wood and non-wood options will be available.
 

dualazmak

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Yes, base solution has yet to be determined. There are many optional directions for that. I have no idea how that will look yet.

Thank you for your kind considerations.
At least for me, I prefer large-screw spike type base unit, e.g. we can see typical photo (Sonus Farber SPs with metal base) here in this post.

From aesthetic point of view, the base unit would be also very important for entire design impression, I believe.
I am looking forward to seeing your stylish Nordic but heavy and solid/rigid black base design(s).
 
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sigbergaudio

sigbergaudio

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Thank you for your kind considerations.
At least for me, I prefer large-screw spike type base unit, e.g. we can see typical photo (Sonus Farber SPs with metal base) here in this post.

From aesthetic point of view, the base unit would be also very important for entire design impression, I believe.
I am looking forward to seeing your stylish Nordic but heavy and solid/rigid black base design(s).

Yes, something like that may be the solution. We shall see. :)
 

Purité Audio

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I'm iterating on the design, and would welcome some feedback, both positive and negative, and feel free to add some comments/reflections on why you like/dislike it. :)

Note these are still quick sketches just to get an impression of how things may look. For instance, the drivers will obviously have black screws/bolts, not shiny ones as you may get an impression of in these sketches.

So this iteration has black baffle and back, while the sides are walnut veneer. The veneer also wraps around covering about 0.5 inches of the baffle, to better frame the front. I'm also thinking the grille should only cover the black part of the baffle, so you still see the walnut with the grille on.

Also note that the baffle is 26cm while the back is only 22cm, which means the sides will be slightly rounded as they curve in to meet the more narrow backside.
The narrowed backside also means the oversized rear port has changed to a more square form.

1701515842754-png.974833
I like the .5 veneer surround, I also like the wood ‘base’ of the Manta?
Keith
 

prestigetone

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I don't love the protruding base unless it's maybe an X pattern and doesnt go all the way around. Is it possible to get the cardioid cutout foam in different colors or white? These remind me of the Amphion Krypton which are passive cardioid.
 
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