Sigberg Audio Saranna (fullrange, cardioid active floorstander) development thread

[thewas]

Canada.

So many wasted resources for a text blob instead of sending it to Amir, Erin or someone else with a Klippel NFS but I guess that's how the audiophile market works...

 

[sigbergaudio]

So many wasted resources for a text blob instead of sending it to Amir, Erin or someone else with a Klippel NFS but I guess that's how the audiophile market works...

Reviews and measurements serve different purposes, and it’s not an either/or. For a small brand like ours, broader exposure through publications like SoundStage is important as well.

I've shared Klippel measurements of all our speakers, and are open to NFS measurements as opportunities come up.

 

[kharan]

Reviews and measurements serve different purposes, and it’s not an either/or. For a small brand like ours, broader exposure through publications like SoundStage is important as well.

I've shared Klippel measurements of all our speakers, and are open to NFS measurements as opportunities come up.

Out of curiosity, how many people is Sigberg Audio?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Out of curiosity, how many people is Sigberg Audio?

It is mainly a family run business + suppliers and consultants. With regards to consultancy, an example would be design and CAD work, which I don't need often enough to employ someone. Marketing support would be another. The cabinets are built by a cabinet manufacturer, etc. This way you can scale quite a bit before having to employ direct staff.

 

[kharan]

It is mainly a family run business + suppliers and consultants. With regards to consultancy, an example would be design and CAD work, which I don't need often enough to employ someone. Marketing support would be another. The cabinets are built by a cabinet manufacturer, etc. This way you can scale quite a bit before having to employ direct staff.

So more than you alone and less than five full-time people would be correct?

 

[sigbergaudio]

So more than you alone and less than five full-time people would be correct?

Yes, I think many would be surprised how small even the well known "botique" brands that have been at it for decades are. And I've only been at it for 6 years, growing mostly organically.

 

[thewas]

Reviews and measurements serve different purposes, and it’s not an either/or. For a small brand like ours, broader exposure through publications like SoundStage is important as well.

I've shared Klippel measurements of all our speakers, and are open to NFS measurements as opportunities come up.

What do you mean with Klippel measurements and is there a link to those?
Also I don't understand the term opportunities when you spend probably not less to send them to such far distant audiophile prose reviewers, that sounds more than priorities not to say excuses.

 

[Matias]

I've shared Klippel measurements of all our speakers, and are open to NFS measurements as opportunities come up.

Any chance to upload your measurements to spinorama.org with Pierre? Saranna is not listed there.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Any chance to upload your measurements to spinorama.org with Pierre? Saranna is not listed there.

I don't have a full spin of the Saranna, as it is not practically possible to do in the anechoic chamber I have access to. Due to the rear firing drivers, it doesn't sum correctly, even at 2 meters.

 

[sigbergaudio]

What do you mean with Klippel measurements and is there a link to those?
Also I don't understand the term opportunities when you spend probably not less to send them to such far distant audiophile prose reviewers, that sounds more than priorities not to say excuses.

Measurements done with Klippel software in an anechoic chamber. If you are interested in the product and/or project, they are not hard to find.

Neither Amir nor Erin actually accepts just any request for review. You are assuming I haven't tried to get products reviewed with either party. That assumption is wrong.

 

[sigbergaudio]

As I have also shared in the past, there are a relatively large number of "experts" on this forum that doesn't really know how to read a CTA2034 very well, but think they do. So measuring something like our SBS or Manta system that isn't full range without the subs can easily go sideways quite fast.

I have also already shared full spinoramas of both, so the only thing it would accomplish is prove that I'm not somehow faking the ones I have provided. And I suspect those who think that, aren't really in my target audience - so not really worth the time or effort for me nor Amir/Erin.

 

[Audionaut]

View attachment 382062



Now what?

Hi Thorbjørn,
why exactly did you move the two woofers from the front to the back at this stage of development?
Development had been well advanced, and third-party tests had been very positive.
Besides, it doesn’t just have advantages.
So why? What was your Idea at this Point and what were you unhappy with?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Hi Thorbjørn,
why exactly did you move the two woofers from the front to the back at this stage of development?
Development had been well advanced, and third-party tests had been very positive.
Besides, it doesn’t just have advantages.
So why? What was your Idea at this Point and what were you unhappy with?

It was one aesthetic/design perspective, and one functional perspective.

From a design perspective, it just looked too much like any other floorstander to me, and I knew the performance would not be like any other floorstander, so I needed some way to make it catch the eye and attention. At the same time there was certainly mixed reception for this change in my usual group of people I consult with. Some found the speaker to look "weird" with only one driver in front. But at least it was different (I am aware it is not unique, but a less typical configuration). I like different.

The second reason is connected to the fact that if you look at it from the main Sigberg philosophy of a 4-way system with dedicated bass units, this entire project was a compromise from the start. So from a conventional point of view, the Saranna is a normal 3-way floorstander, while our other systems is a bit strange. In my book it's the other way around. Our other 4-way systems are the default and go to approach for best possible sound. And it's the Saranna with its integrated 3-way approach that is strange.

So this entire project was an exercise in minimizing the negative consequences of "settling" for a 3-way solution. One of the required changes was moving to a different and larger coaxial driver, so that I got more capacity in the midbass, since I no longer have a dedicated midbass driver. The other was to find a way to get the sound as similar as possible to a perfectly integrated, 4-way system with dedicated subwoofers. One way of doing that was to use as powerful bass drivers as possible that would still fit on the baffle. The second was to go for a ported enclosure (the first in the line-up, since both existing subwoofers are sealed). The third was to figure out how to minimize bass issues despite having the drivers locked to the main speaker cabinets. So by moving the drivers to the rear, and also separating them vertically, with one driver and the port very close to the floor, and finally tuning the speakers to handle being very close to the wall, I get a similar effect as with the Inkognito subwoofers: The bass drivers get very close to one or even two of the room boundaries (wall+floor), which reduces the number of modes that are excited (the Allison effect).

The result is that the Sarannas are way less boomy than a typical speaker, even when placed close to the wall. I played a EDM track at ~100dB at the last Hifi show we visited (in a 20m^2 hotel room), and a guy in the audience commented "How on earth are you able to get that clean, tight and loud bass?" - This is how.

 

[Audionaut]

I don't think this coax will ever measure textbook on-axis, but it evens out nicely off-axis, and sounds great. I am not going to throw it out for the sake of the on-axis prettiness.

In my opinion, a well-made 8-inch PA coaxial speaker with sufficient low-frequency support is one of the best ways to enjoy music at home.
I don’t know of any—whether from Beyma, BMS, Sica, or B&C—that perform perfectly on-axis in terms of measurements. But what most people—especially here on ASR—fail to consider is that it offers a very large headroom for distortion-free reproduction in the mid-low and high frequencies, and that it delivers a completely coherent soundstage vertically—though this varies, of course, depending on the enclosure. To my surprise, even the most sophisticated measurements rarely take this into account when evaluating speakers, which more or less fail vertically at even slight angles. “It doesn’t matter once you’re sitting and listening” is usually the terse explanation. What nonsense. If you were always sitting, a beam speaker would suffice.
Personally, I stand, walk around, and sometimes sit while listening to music—and a coaxial speaker is the only type that delivers a coherent sound image at almost any height and distance in the home.
In my opinion, this is far more important than it is often given credit for.

 

[Audionaut]

This is how.

Thanks for sharing your impressions and thoughts.
I’ve only built a corner horn and a dipole, which naturally radiate sound toward the wall.
I imagine that the Saranna speakers also come very close to the ideal of acoustic envelopment that’s been discussed here on ASR - through this wall radiation.
Best regards and all the best

 

[sigbergaudio]

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Another Saranna test, this time in German Lite Magazin. It's in German but can be easily translated to another language in your preferred browser.

Sigberg Audio Saranna – Reinster Klanggenuss

Die Sigberg Saranna setzt auf geballtes und ausgefuchstes Know-how – für exzellenten Klang ohne unerwünschte Raumeinflüsse.

www.lite-magazin.de

 

[sigbergaudio]

Sigberg Audio Saranna in Shady white is now temporarily sold out (cabinets are on back order). We hope to be able to accept orders again before summer.

The Sarannas in Fade to black are however still available!

 

[sigbergaudio]

Sigberg Audio Saranna in Shady white is now temporarily sold out (cabinets are on back order). We hope to be able to accept orders again before summer.

The Sarannas in Fade to black are however still available!

After getting a quick confirmation on new cabinets, sales are reopened with a longer estimated leadtime (July).