Sigberg Audio Saranna (fullrange, cardioid active floorstander) development thread

[MLDT]

We had a potential customer from Italy audition both the SBS.1, Manta and Saranna during a 2 hour session the other day, and he said that he doubted he would have been able to distinguish between the Saranna and the Manta in a blind test. So the Sarannas are starting to get production ready.

Personally I find them to sound slightly different, but I'd be hard pressed to say that one sounds better than the other.

the potential client is me and in fact it I'm about to become just client without potential as I am placing an order for a pair of Mantas and a single SBS.1 to use as center channel (behind an acoustically transparent screen) in my under construction Home Cinema/Hi-Fi room (rest of the equipment will be Marantz AV10 processor, Kef Q4 Metas surrounds and Atmos ceiling speakers and 2 x Arendal 1723 2S subs).

Indeed both the Mantas and the Sarannas sounded very similar (and great!) to me, not sure I could tell them apart in a blind test to be honest (probably not, maybe only if i had a lot of time to listen to both of them extensively beforehand). Perhaps the Sarannas had a very slightly more prominent mid range and perhaps tiny bit more forgiving highs, and hence very slightly "fuller" sound (as in tiny less neutral), but we are really splitting hairs here in my opinion... hence my comment that I don't think that I could tell them apart in a blind test.

My main reason to go for the Mantas is that I already own a very competent pair of subs that i like (the Arendal 1723 2S), that I can get them by June instead of by August being already and stock and last but not least the possibility to complete the front 3 channels with identical tweeter and mid range, hence keeping perfect tonal balance.

Both sounded amazing, with great imaging and very detailed but not harsh or fatiguing in any way.

In fact I even auditioned in stereo the SBS.1 and whilst not to the exact par of the other 2, to be honest they sounded not too dissimilar and are probably 90% there (the imaging whilst still very good is slightly less holographic), making them a relative bargain if you ask me! And I really think they will shine as the central channel in my home theater set up.

 

[sigbergaudio]

the potential client is me and in fact it I'm about to become just client without potential as I am placing an order for a pair of Mantas and a single SBS.1 to use as center channel (behind an acoustically transparent screen) in my under construction Home Cinema/Hi-Fi room (rest of the equipment will be Marantz AV10 processor, Kef Q4 Metas surrounds and Atmos ceiling speakers and 2 x Arendal 1723 2S subs).

Indeed both the Mantas and the Sarannas sounded very similar (and great!) to me, not sure I could tell them apart in a blind test to be honest (probably not, maybe only if i had a lot of time to listen to both of them extensively beforehand). Perhaps the Sarannas had a very slightly more prominent mid range and perhaps tiny bit more forgiving highs, and hence very slightly "fuller" sound (as in tiny less neutral), but we are really splitting hairs here in my opinion... hence my comment that I don't think that I could tell them apart in a blind test.

My main reason to go for the Mantas is that I already own a very competent pair of subs that i like (the Arendal 1723 2S), that I can get them by June instead of by August being already and stock and last but not least the possibility to complete the front 3 channels with identical tweeter and mid range, hence keeping perfect tonal balance.

Both sounded amazing, with great imaging and very detailed but not harsh or fatiguing in any way.

In fact I even auditioned in stereo the SBS.1 and whilst not to the exact par of the other 2, to be honest they sounded not too dissimilar and are probably 90% there (the imaging whilst still very good is slightly less holographic), making them a relative bargain if you ask me! And I really think they will shine as the central channel in my home theater set up.

Thank you for visiting, it was very nice to meet you. I think your future setup with the Manta + SBS, Arendal subs and Kef surrounds will be awesome!

 

[sigbergaudio]

I'm starting to loose track of what I've shared or not, but I don't think I've shared too much of distortion measurements, right? I shared early anechoic measurement showing less than 1% at 96dB anechoic. But what does it translate to in real world performance, and what is the performance in the bass? Easy to brag about 20hz bass response if there's no SPL involved right?

So here is a measurement at 2 meters in-room (so with room gain) with a single speaker.

THD of less than 3% at 107dB@2m at 30hz.
THD of ~7% at 103dB@2m at 20hz.

 

[Reddoc]

Thorbjorn, thanks so much for the extra data, can you comment on the distortion up around 140 Hz?
It looks like the fundamental is at a lower level and the 2nd and 3rd harmonics are up relatively high, but I am not an expert at interpreting these graphs. I appreciate that this is one speaker at quite loud levels (loud for me, anyway).
I am after an ULTRA-low distortion active speaker.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Thorbjorn, thanks so much for the extra data, can you comment on the distortion up around 140 Hz?
It looks like the fundamental is at a lower level and the 2nd and 3rd harmonics are up relatively high, but I am not an expert at interpreting these graphs. I appreciate that this is one speaker at quite loud levels (loud for me, anyway).
I am after an ULTRA-low distortion active speaker.

I am not aware of many active speakers that have higher capacity than ours, so you are looking at the right brand. If you need even more extreme our Manta system is of course an alternative. But in general "This isn't loud enough" is a sentence I would not expect anyone to say regardless of which speaker they purchase from our lineup. Even our SBS.1 speakers play very, very loud without audible compression.

With regards to distortion up aroudn 140hz; since it is an in-room measurement, it is inaccurate in areas where there are peaks or dips in the response due to the room. So if there's a peak in the room, you get "free" SPL, and REW will think the distortion is lower than it actually is. If there is a dip, the opposite will happen, as is the case at 140hz. So the room is killing the fundamental, making REW think the distortion is high, since the fundamental is lower than it should have been. If we look back at the anechoic distortion measurement there is nothing of note in this area (see below). We're essentially below 1% from 50hz-10khz. I guess I should have cut the graph at 100hz to reduce the confusion.

(Note that this is taken at 2 meters, so you need to add 6dB to the level, it's comparable to a 96dB@1m measurement as typically shown by Erin or Amir).

 

[Reddoc]

I am not aware of many active speakers that have higher capacity than ours, so you are looking at the right brand. If you need even more extreme our Manta system is of course an alternative. But in general "This isn't loud enough" is a sentence I would not expect anyone to say regardless of which speaker they purchase from our lineup. Even our SBS.1 speakers play very, very loud without audible compression.

With regards to distortion up aroudn 140hz; since it is an in-room measurement, it is inaccurate in areas where there are peaks or dips in the response due to the room. So if there's a peak in the room, you get "free" SPL, and REW will think the distortion is lower than it actually is. If there is a dip, the opposite will happen, as is the case at 140hz. So the room is killing the fundamental, making REW think the distortion is high, since the fundamental is lower than it should have been. If we look back at the anechoic distortion measurement there is nothing of note in this area (see below). We're essentially below 1% from 50hz-10khz. I guess I should have cut the graph at 100hz to reduce the confusion.

(Note that this is taken at 2 meters, so you need to add 6dB to the level, it's comparable to a 96dB@1m measurement as typically shown by Erin or Amir).
View attachment 449527

Fantastic, thanks you so much for the timely, understandable and helpful response.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Fantastic, thanks you so much for the timely, understandable and helpful response.

You're welcome, feel free to ask if you have any other questions.

 

[Purité Audio]

The Mantas are the most dynamic speakers I have had here, if you have a larger room or are sitting further away then they are ideal,SPLs are not an issue with any Sigberg design.
Keith

 

[Vacceo]

the potential client is me and in fact it I'm about to become just client without potential as I am placing an order for a pair of Mantas and a single SBS.1 to use as center channel (behind an acoustically transparent screen) in my under construction Home Cinema/Hi-Fi room (rest of the equipment will be Marantz AV10 processor, Kef Q4 Metas surrounds and Atmos ceiling speakers and 2 x Arendal 1723 2S subs).

Indeed both the Mantas and the Sarannas sounded very similar (and great!) to me, not sure I could tell them apart in a blind test to be honest (probably not, maybe only if i had a lot of time to listen to both of them extensively beforehand). Perhaps the Sarannas had a very slightly more prominent mid range and perhaps tiny bit more forgiving highs, and hence very slightly "fuller" sound (as in tiny less neutral), but we are really splitting hairs here in my opinion... hence my comment that I don't think that I could tell them apart in a blind test.

My main reason to go for the Mantas is that I already own a very competent pair of subs that i like (the Arendal 1723 2S), that I can get them by June instead of by August being already and stock and last but not least the possibility to complete the front 3 channels with identical tweeter and mid range, hence keeping perfect tonal balance.

Both sounded amazing, with great imaging and very detailed but not harsh or fatiguing in any way.

In fact I even auditioned in stereo the SBS.1 and whilst not to the exact par of the other 2, to be honest they sounded not too dissimilar and are probably 90% there (the imaging whilst still very good is slightly less holographic), making them a relative bargain if you ask me! And I really think they will shine as the central channel in my home theater set up.

Eventually, you could upgrade your surrounds to SBS's.

 

[MLDT]

Eventually, you could upgrade your surrounds to SBS's.

ahah why not
And of course also each complemented with an Inkognito sub too!!
That could in fact be insane indeed, especially with Dirac ART as you would effectively have very full range speakers to play with..
Apart from the obvious budge issue of such a configuration eheh it would likely require a room designed for that from scratch just because it would need electricity plugs every where scattered around the room the the right spots..... food for thoughts if I ever change house and i can build a cinema room from scratch !

 

[Vacceo]

ahah why not
And of course also each complemented with an Inkognito sub too!!
That could in fact be insane indeed, especially with Dirac ART as you would effectively have very full range speakers to play with..
Apart from the obvious budge issue of such a configuration eheh it would likely require a room designed for that from scratch just because it would need electricity plugs every where scattered around the room the the right spots..... food for thoughts if I ever change house and i can build a cinema room from scratch !

Well, the thing about bass is that we do not locate it well, so with 4 total subwoofers, you should be fine.

That said, the sockets would be a total os 7 at the very least.

 

[Vacceo]

@sigbergaudio, what can you tell us about the SBS with horizontal logo used as center?

 

[sigbergaudio]

@sigbergaudio, what can you tell us about the SBS with horizontal logo used as center?

@MLDT ordered a single SBS as center with his Mantas, but he will be placing the speaker in a normal, vertical fashion, so he will get a completely normal one.

But I also sold another one just now as a center, that will be placed horizontally (as is typical of center speakers), so the logo was rotated 90 degrees so that it was the "right way" when placed in a horizontal position. Beyond that it's a normal SBS.1, no differences in tuning.

 

[sigbergaudio]

We're approaching the home stretch of the acoustical design and tuning of the Saranna. The final sample pair arrives by the end of this week. Changes since last revision: Adjustments on the base (wider, deeper, thicker) and adjustments to the chamber for the coaxial driver. Hopefully everything is 100% so production can begin.

With regards to tuning, I always try to have as few and low Q filters as possible for the most natural sound. I know this is not the approach of all manufacturers, and everyone must find their own way to their version of "right". This is ours.

As a result of a huge number of fine tuning sessions, the result is always too many filters. So one of the final things to do is to try to achieve the same results with as few filters as possible. The bass and midrange tunings are already very minimal. The tweeter on the other hand currently had seven filters in addition to the actual crossover slopes. I revised those today, and were able to reduce the number of filters from seven to four, and two of the remaining four now has a lower Q.

The result is a very similar frequency response and tonality, and a sound that is (subjectively) even more natural and effortless.

Green is the new tuning:

 

[sigbergaudio]

And phase that behaves across the crossover:

 

[sigbergaudio]

..and this is how the Sarannas will be shipped to customers. One box per speaker, that as a pair are designed to fit perfectly on a standard euro pallet and keep the speakers safe and secure in transit.

 

[sigbergaudio]

New base. Wider, thicker and chamfered edge. And in the alternative color (Shady White).

 

[sigbergaudio]

Color swatches on the website has been updated to better reflect how it looks in real life.

• The black veneer swatch has been adjusted to look darker. Previous veneer swatch looked brown-ish, but in real life it looks almost black.
• The white paint swatch has been adjusted to look brighter, and better reflect the difference in color between the grey veneer and the almost-white paint. Previous color swatch looked more grey, but in reality it looks almost white until you put it next to something that is truly white.

 

[Salt]

..and this is how the Sarannas will be shipped to customers. One box per speaker, that as a pair are designed to fit perfectly on a standard euro pallet and keep the speakers safe and secure in transit.

View attachment 451106

True monkey coffin (no offence, just kidding)

 

[sigbergaudio]

The final product photos of the "Shady Grey" color option will be a bit delayed, so I've decided to share a couple of teaser photos.

The second photo (the close-up) shows the real color of the veneer best. So it's a very neutral grey, as the name implies, that takes on the color of the light as the first photo shows - the speaker is illuminated by light with a orange tint - so will look awesome in the evening sun.

This combination looks awesome in the flesh in my subjective opinion, really clean and, I guess, Scandinavian. Somehow the perception of the shade of the aluminum horn changes to a more greyish look as well on this speaker, making the horn look like a very neat detail against the not-quite-white paint and grey veneer. The final version of the base / plinth will be slightly more narrow to better follow the form of the speaker visually.