Great to see a floorstander is on the way (not a fan of monitors)! But, those woofers are far too small. Go big or go home… minimum 10”, but even better 12”Thank you to everyone who have followed our other development threads, time for a new one, and you're coming along for the ride from very early days! I haven't even decided on a name for this one yet. Assuming we end up with a production model of this, that is 18-24 months into the future.
Sigberg Audio is currently known for loudspeaker systems consisting of monitors and subwoofers. There are two obvious segments of the market that we cannot reach with our current products:
1) Those who prefer floorstanders.
2) Those who do not want subwoofers.
This new speaker will address both those points. I'm now starting the development of a Sigberg Audio fullrange, active cardioid floorstander!
(Early design sketches, subject to change completely)
View attachment 329314
View attachment 329315
Some key characteristics (subject to change):
(Very) Preliminary specifications:
- Huge soundstage, and rich, natural in-room sound (in line with other Sigberg Audio products)
- True full range (20-20,000hz) in-room response
- Cardioid midbass and midrange
- 3-way design; Coax driver to cover the midrange and highs, Dual, heavy duty 8" drivers (fs: 25hz) to cover the bass and subbass
- Ported enclosure, with the option to seal it with included foam plug.
- As our other designs, placement close to the wall will be supported (but further out on the floor will work too).
- Simple presets (click a button on the back) for bass/placement adjustments, plus full 9 band EQ onboard for taming those room modes
- Dedicated preset for mating the speakers with our subwoofers; This presets introduces a high pass in the speakers, matching our subwoofers perfectly.
- Ported (rear facing) enclosure
- 5.5" paper midrange, 1" silk dome (coax driver)
- Dual 8" (22cm) aluminium bass drivers
- 107x35x32cm (HWD)
- 28-20,000hz (+/-3dB anechoic)
- Typical in-room extension: 20hz (-3dB)
- Cardioid from ~250hz
- 3-channel, 650W Hypex amplifier in each speaker
Early prototypes:
View attachment 329294
Some preliminary measurements, Disclaimer: preliminary, subject to change, in-room @ listening position.
More detailed measurements to come later.
Current in-room response at listening position in the room above with the speakers 10-15cm (4-6 inches) from the wall (left+right+avg):
View attachment 329297
10-200hz in-room (listening position, no subwoofer, no smoothing). Note that reference level is 75dB (avg of 300-5,000hz).
Relative to the reference level, in-room -3dB point is 22hz, and -6dB is 16hz.
View attachment 329300
To be continued...
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Sigberg Audio Saranna (fullrange, cardioid active floorstander) development thread
- Thread starter sigbergaudio
- Start date
Where in Norway would that be? I couldn't find a postal address on your homepage. Vi can har et lite snakkI appreciate your eagerness to test our designs. Heavy speakers like both these and the Mantas are unfortunately pretty expensive to ship for testing (and yes I understand that you are joking (mostly)), but you are very welcome to listen if you should ever come to Norway, or to Keith in London.
Any plan about using... This ?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #44
Where in Norway would that be? I couldn't find a postal address on your homepage. Vi can har et lite snakk
17 minute by train / 25min by car from Oslo, feel free to DM me!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #45
I'm afraid it's simply too expensive for that to be a great idea. It should also ideally be matched with dual radiators, which would increase the price even more. The driver in use has a similar linear xmax.
Sokel
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My take on that as a (little bigger) 3-way fan is to take extra care to the 100-300Hz area other than the generous lows.
It's the area that smaller 3-ways suffer,let alone the 2-way with subs which usually leave this area deserted of tactile feel and impact.
Genelec went far by adding the W371A woofer just to cover this area and give some omph and even farer with the 8381A.
I know that messing with the area where the voices are is dangerous (baritones have full authority at 75Hz and the voice cover of male and female is generally considered starting from 65Hz,a single spoken "P" bungs down to 15 (!) Hz) .
And that's where a good midbass-mid integration shines.
Have fun building it!
It's the area that smaller 3-ways suffer,let alone the 2-way with subs which usually leave this area deserted of tactile feel and impact.
Genelec went far by adding the W371A woofer just to cover this area and give some omph and even farer with the 8381A.
I know that messing with the area where the voices are is dangerous (baritones have full authority at 75Hz and the voice cover of male and female is generally considered starting from 65Hz,a single spoken "P" bungs down to 15 (!) Hz) .
And that's where a good midbass-mid integration shines.
Have fun building it!
OP
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Why no woofers in the back for cardioid?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #49
I am very happy to see that you and others understand the merit of a 4-way system with dedicated subwoofers. I guess these floorstanders is an offer to those who don't.
It's funny / interesting how this project makes the limitations of a 2.0 3-way system apparent when you look at it in the context of our other offerings, while I rarely see these types of comments on other floorstanders. When did you last see a review of a high powered 3-way floorstander where people went "Why is it not a 4-way?" and "But you still need a sub!" ?
Our monitors have dedicated midbass drivers because the presence of a sub is a given. These floorstanders have what are in essence subwoofer drivers, because the presence of a sub is unlikely. This means this is not your average 3-way. Just as our monitors are different due to the dedicated midbass drivers, these speakers are different due to the extreme woofers (the response in the original post is natural, no EQ applied to lift the low end). I am also not aware of any active floor standers in this price range / of a similar quality.
They will provide much of the same sound quality and sound stage as a Manta or SBS.1 system, and will provide true full range sound (with good but not unlimited SPL) without subwoofers. If crazy dynamics and SPL is a high priority, you want an SBS.1 or Manta system.
Just as the subwoofer drivers in our subs, these are of very high quality, and are linear to beyond 1,000hz - so they do well in the upper bass / lower mids as well, but it is of course not quite the same as a dedicated, lightweight midbass driver.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #50
We have dedicated, lightweight midbass drivers for the 100-600hz area in both the SBS.1 and the Manta. So I obviously agree with you, and we already have offerings providing this approach (see also my post immediately above this)
Matt_Holland
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See post #25
OP
- Thread Starter
- #53
Yes. The DIY community are the main consumers of high priced components like that. Most 20,000$ speakers out there have woofers that cost maybe 50$.
Have a look at the Lyngdorf CUE-100 for instance. It's a passive speaker with a single 6.5" purifi driver. Price per pair? 20,000$+ And Peter Lyngdorf is co-founder of Purifi, so they probably have VERY favorable pricing for those drivers.
Sokel
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Wait now,philharmonic's audio Scanspeak 26W/8861T00 10" (if I'm not mistaken by the size Edit,I am it's the 8" one)) is a 350-400 euro woofer (amongst my favorites by the way,my old SF had them) and their towers are certainly not in the 20k region.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #55
Sounds like a bargain (from a cost perspective) then. But a product is also more than the sum of its parts. And I'm sure we can find examples of products that are very expensive with low cost components, and also cheap products with high cost components (Philharmonic is probably an example of the latter). And you will also find both products with cheap components that sound good, and products with expensive components that sound horrible (for the record I do not think Philharmonic is an example of the latter).
Finally, also remember that these are active speakers. The amplifiers in these speakers retail at 650 Euro each.
That being said, you can't reasonably expect to understand the pricing of a product based on the components alone. They are but one of many things factoring into the cost of doing business.
Sokel
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Hey,I'm the first to say that a business should make money,it's not a charity.Sounds like a bargain (from a cost perspective) then. But a product is also more than the sum of its parts. And I'm sure we can find examples of products that are very expensive with low cost components, and also cheap products with high cost components (Philharmonic is probably an example of the latter). And you will also find both products with cheap components that sound good, and products with expensive components that sound horrible (for the record I do not think Philharmonic is an example of the latter).
Finally, also remember that these are active speakers. The amplifiers in these speakers retail at 650 Euro each.
That being said, you can't reasonably expect to understand the pricing of a product based on the components alone. They are but one of many things factoring into the cost of doing business.
But there are examples.
So...
OP
- Thread Starter
- #57
Sigberg Audio has never been a budget option, and that has also never been the objective. We aim to create innovative and truly great speakers and speaker systems. As always it is up to the individual to consider what is offered and evaluate against the competition.
Personally I'm very confident our current products provide a combination of accurate in-room sound and an inspiring listening experience that is hard to find elsewhere. The story of @poopy who basically flew around Europe to audit the competition is a great example of that.
These speakers will not be different.
I’d like to officially sign up for being a US testing guinea pig!
Fully agree with @ryanosaur.
Me too, if @sigbergaudio is seriously considering Japanese market for this exciting new model!
You and we (me, my wife and my audio enthu friends) will be able to test/monitor, objectively and subjectively, your new revolutional speaker at typical(?) Japanese home audio listening room/environment (AC 100V, 50 Hz) comparing it with my rather primitive multichannel multi-amplifier system (ref. here) mainly using my "Audio Reference/Sampler Playlist (ref. here and here)" as well as of course your "Sampler/Reference Playlist".
I am not joking, almost really serious...
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #59
Fully agree with @ryanosaur.
Me too, if @sigbergaudio is seriously considering Japanese market for this exciting new model!
You and we (me, my wife and my audio enthu friends) will be able to test/monitor your new revolutional speaker at typical(?) Japanese home audio listening room/environment (AC 100V, 50 Hz) comparing it with my rather primitive multichannel multi-amplifier system (ref. here) mainly using my "Audio Reference/Sampler Playlist (ref. here and here)".
I am not joking, almost really serious...
Will keep that in mind! Not pushing hard for Asia so far due to the logistics of shipping and returns / service etc seems a bit daunting for a small business. But I guess Japan, being relatively small compared to Asia in general, could work. Should probably look for a partner there at some point.
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I really look forward to your business presence in Japan; I hope and believe your partner in Japan could be a nice hub center, with nice demo facility, for all the Asian market.
Edit:
And if it would be a real case, I would like to suggest you to consider an optional wider solid heavy 4-point-level-adjustable metal base attachment could be firmly screw-fixed to your new SP, since we Japanese are living in the earth area of diastrophism/earthquake, just like in Iceland and California.
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