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Sigberg Audio Saranna (fullrange, cardioid active floorstander) development thread

Hi, I was attracted to this thread by the initial design.

As I built floorstanders with cardioid bass myself, I am wondering why you focus on cardioid in the midrange.

Does it really have a noticible effect on FR and soundstage?

Did you listen and measure with the lateral vents closed?

It's mainly beyond the baffle step, so having already a certain directivity by the cabinet design. Below, there is only boundary coupling of the rear-firing woofers with the Saranna whereas a real cardioid bass might help. Talking about the initial design with two front-firing woofers, I get almost the same soundstage as from a freestanding speaker with a third woofer at the back that is inverted and bandpassed when the speakers are positionned close to a rear wall.

Sorry if I missed something already noted here.

By the way, the subbass rolloff is impressive.
 
Hi, I was attracted to this thread by the initial design.

As I built floorstanders with cardioid bass myself, I am wondering why you focus on cardioid in the midrange.

Hello and thank you for your interest! What is your definition of midrange?

The Saranna will be cardioid down to around 150hz. It could have been 100hz, but that would mean the front firing coax must have been playing down to 100hz. That would sacrifice capacity in the upper bass, which I don't want. Everything is a compromise in loudspeaker design. :)

Our Manta speakers (if you are familiar with those) is cardioid to ~100hz (where they meet the subwoofers in that system).

Cardioid in the bass (below 100hz) with acoustic vents will be challenging without losing capacity.

Does it really have a noticible effect on FR and soundstage?

Absolutely. The two main characteristics that set our cardioid designs apart from a traditional speaker are more coherent and punchy midbass, and more immersive and "larger" soundstage.

Did you listen and measure with the lateral vents closed?

Yes and yes.

It's mainly beyond the baffle step, so having already a certain directivity by the cabinet design. Below, there is only boundary coupling of the rear-firing woofers with the Saranna whereas a real cardioid bass might help. Talking about the initial design with two front-firing woofers, I get almost the same soundstage as from a freestanding speaker with a third woofer at the back that is inverted and bandpassed when the speakers are positionned close to a rear wall.

Sorry if I missed something already noted here.

By the way, the subbass rolloff is impressive.

In my opinion the cardioid has significant audible effect in the midrange as well.

An active bass driver would make this a 4-way design and (even) more complicated, that was not the plan. Our cardioids so far are purely acoustic, so not using dedicated drivers to create the cardioid effect.
 
What is your definition of midrange?

Thank you for your detailed answer.

Roughly beyond 300 Hz, so I was referring to your initial design where the midwoofer took over at 250 Hz. 150 Hz is of course much better.

It could have been 100hz, but that would mean the front firing coax must have been playing down to 100hz. That would sacrifice capacity in the upper bass
Cardioid in the bass (below 100hz) with acoustic vents will be challenging without losing capacity.
Yes, I fully agree.

Absolutely. The two main characteristics that set our cardioid designs apart from a traditional speaker are more coherent and punchy midbass, and more immersive and "larger" soundstage.
Interesting, so I should give it a listen. Never cared about it this much.

An active bass driver would make this a 4-way design and (even) more complicated, that was not the plan. Our cardioids so far are purely acoustic, so not using dedicated drivers to create the cardioid effect.
Yes, this demands for another DSP channel and amp, but also gives more flexibility depending on the position in the room. But I understand your approach to keep it simple and universal, so that there are no hazzles for the customer during setup.

Mine are completely passive speakers, but also the third woofer in the back needs an additional amplifier. It is of course adapted to my listening situation, any major change would result in a modification of the crossover for the rear driver (in this case, a DSP would do better). But then, directivity is 3 dB down to 80 Hz approx. Fair enough, the rear wall does the rest.

From this, I know the limitations of acoustic vents and therefore went on with a rear driver. This, combined with a DSP, is a game changer both in R&D and flexibility.
 
Pre-production sample is slowly getting closer.

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One step closer to production, a pallet with the first batch of the production version of the Coax drivers has arrived. :)

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Weight seems to end up around 43kg / 95 lbs per speaker. Might share some teaser photos of the pre production model pretty soon. :)
 
Desperately trying to work out what 95lbs is in stone and 43kg in imperial. Mantas are 25kg each aren’t they, so getting on for twice as heavy.
Keith
 
Small adjustment in finish: Both variants will now feature a monochromatic design where contrast is created through texture rather than a large difference in color.

The dark one will feature a pitch black color and veneer that is also almost black (looks less brown and more black in real life than on screen).

The light one will feature a light grey veneer and a complementing light grey / off white color.

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A teaser photo from behind the speakers during initial measurements of the first pre-production pair today. :) Product photos are planned for end of February.

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Base / Plinth. This will increase a bit in size (wider and deeper) to ensure stabillity, and there will also be feet under it.

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And the base itself. It will be not come attached to the speaker, so will as such be optional to attach, but recommended for added stability. Holes for attaching the base to the speaker, and holes to attach feet to the base. :)

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That is really smart.
My ‘Sigberg Audio’ T-Shirt was recognised in the street today, by a fellow ASR member!
Keith
 
That is really smart.
My ‘Sigberg Audio’ T-Shirt was recognised in the street today, by a fellow ASR member!
Keith

Haha, that's cool! But is it really t-shirt weather over there? :eek:
 
In retrospect no!
Keith
 
Some preliminary measurements of the pre-production samples. I suspect they won't end up being tuned this hot (or this tidy), but it shows what they are capable of. This is ~30cm distance in-room. 150-20,000hz. 1/12th smoothing.

They will be tuned for 0-10 degrees toe-in, which means the 15deg response will be close to reference / listening axis.

0deg
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15deg
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30deg
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How do you get such a smooth FR at 30cm, from 200Hz?
I can hardly do that at one meter, with the speaker lifted to the middle of the room, and with thick blankets on the floor to dampen the first floor bounce.
 
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