Sigberg Audio Manta (12" wideband cardioid active speakers) development thread

[90sNintendoKid]

Just played the Mantas for a really nice chap, who reads ASR,( I am hoping he might contribute something) it was a pleasure to have him here and he liked them.
Keith

I'd like to thank you Keith for demoing the Mantas and D10 subwoofers for me today. I was left speechless by them, I thought the imaging was amazing and it was the first time I've heard so much depth in a speaker alongside to me the pleasant sound quality. I also got a sense of vertical imaging in the center image which I've never experienced before. I was listening to the Streets of Rage soundtrack by Yuzo Koshiro and I heard a symbol sound out of the left speaker which I localised beyond the speaker which was new to me.

In my view the problem I have is that I have to buy a pair .......for music and the left and right for movies.

 

[Purité Audio]

It was a genuine pleasure meeting you, and refreshing to hear such enthusiasm for audio reproduction.
Keith

 

[Matt_Holland]

I was listening to the Streets of Rage soundtrack by Yuzo Koshiro

Awesome!!!

I saw a great video on YouTube that analysed the compositions in the SOR gamea soundtracks. Probably my fave games back in the day.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

Awesome!!!

I saw a great video on YouTube that analysed the compositions in the SOR gamea soundtracks. Probably my fave games back in the day.

I used to play SOR just to listen to the music in the 90s. I prefer the soundtrack nowadays because it's better quality. I found the same with the Transformers the Animated Movie soundtrack.

 

[Matt_Holland]

I used to play SOR just to listen to the music in the 90s.

Hahaha. Me too. SOR2 soundtrack was especially amazing. I was even sad enough to connect the headphone output of my MegaDrive to a tape recorder and record the music!

This is the YouTube video I mentioned. The guy’s reactions are so good. He’s a skilled musician so a very good analysis.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

Hahaha. Me too. SOR2 soundtrack was especially amazing. I was even sad enough to connect the headphone output of my MegaDrive to a tape recorder and record the music!

This is the YouTube video I mentioned. The guy’s reactions are so good. He’s a skilled musician so a very good analysis.

Thanks.

I thought the SOR soundtrack sounded amazing on the Mantas, my experience of the overall sound quality was that they were smooth like butter. I found the higher frequencies extremely easy on the ear, the opposite to sibilant and shrill alongside the excellent bass.

Would the people following this thread be interested in my personal comparison between the Mantas and Dutch & Dutch 8cs without subwoofers that I also demoed at Purite Audio?

 

[Matt_Holland]

Would the people following this thread be interested in my personal comparison between the Mantas and Dutch & Dutch 8cs without subwoofers that I also demoed at Purite Audio?

Might be worth starting a new thread. I’d be interested to hear it.

 

[MKR]

LMAO
Doc is a character. I do respect him, but sometimes... whew.

When somebody like Doc actually gets enrolled in an idea, like some of Sigberg's Speakers, it's pretty cool to see him "light up" with praise. The sad part is those who don't understand or are not willing to "get it" as a concept and how they react.

To me, Thorbjørn's gear is supremely interesting and has driven me to look at different ways to address what I may want out of a Speaker I design. I still want to build my own gear, but now rather than just copying a Salk/Philharmonic concept, I want to marry it with a Sigberg concept.

That said, it is truly a shame when somebody who doesn't like a price or a Driver choice, or doesn't understand Speaker design, turns and bags on a product or designer for following their calling, especially if they are giving it their all and hopefully making it work!

Ultimately not the direction I will be going for my “end game” choice, but I very much respect Thorbjorn and his designs, top notch, and certainly they could be an end game choice for many folks! Oh, and cardioid is the way

 

[sigbergaudio]

Hahaha. Me too. SOR2 soundtrack was especially amazing. I was even sad enough to connect the headphone output of my MegaDrive to a tape recorder and record the music!

This is the YouTube video I mentioned. The guy’s reactions are so good. He’s a skilled musician so a very good analysis.

This is a rabbit hole I didn't expect to go down this evening. Fascinating!

 

[Lekha]

Well, but the enclosure certainly affects the produced sound. So the enclosure design is (hopefully) not random or just for show.

Maybe so. Can you explain "scientifically," why your box should give better sound than other boxes, using the same driver?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Maybe so. Can you explain "scientifically," why your box should give better sound than other boxes, using the same driver?

I don't understand the question. Let's start with "different" rather than "better". Are you onboard with the fact that the driver will not sound the same regardless of the enclosure?

 

[Lekha]

I don't understand the question. Let's start with "different" rather than "better". Are you onboard with the fact that the driver will not sound the same regardless of the enclosure?

You understand the question about explaining scientifically.
The enclosure or the box can only change the way the "back wave" of the driver comes to the listener, with holes or without holes in the box.

 

[sigbergaudio]

You understand the question about explaining scientifically.

I'm trying to understand at what level to put the explanation depending on what your initial stance is.

The enclosure or the box can only change the way the "back wave" of the driver comes to the listener, with holes or without holes in the box.

Well, this is not true and/or simplified.

Here are at least four ways the enclosure will matter in an audible way:

1. Obviously the Manta enclosure is cardioid, so this will adjust the dispersion characteristics of the sound coming from the driver. This will sound different.
2. The size of the enclosure will affect the low end roll-off, and especially if it had been a sealed cabinet, it would also change the back pressure and efficiency of the system. Again audible.
3. How the inside of the enclosure is treated will affect resonances and thus distortion / linearity. In the case of the Manta the internal treatment also affects how the cardioid system works, which means it also directly affects the dispersion characteristics.
4. What the cabinet is made of and how well braced it is will again affect resonances and thus distortion / linearity.

 

[Audionaut]

it’sactually well-known in loudspeaker design that many high-sensitivityPA drivers are optimized for high output and power handling, not forfine microdynamics or low-level linearity.

That is simply unbelievable nonsense.
There are so many excellent PA drivers with outstanding measurement values and impulse and waterfall measurements that are close to the ideal.

What you describe occurs at best with subwoofer drivers with a heavy cone and two spiders.
However, this is independent of whether they are PA drivers or not.

 

[LSPhil]

Well, but the enclosure certainly affects the produced sound. So the enclosure design is (hopefully) not random or just for show.

Of course an enclosure can affect the sound – but that’s not a feature, it’s a flaw. A well-designed enclosure should minimize its influence on the driver’s radiation pattern. If a designer says they shape the sound with internal resonances or diffraction, I seriously question the validity of that design. That’s like an amplifier designer saying distortion is desirable.
The enclosure should serve a technical purpose – mainly, preventing rear wave interference – not add its own "character" to the sound. If it does, it’s doing more harm than good.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Of course an enclosure can affect the sound – but that’s not a feature, it’s a flaw. A well-designed enclosure should minimize its influence on the driver’s radiation pattern. If a designer says they shape the sound with internal resonances or diffraction, I seriously question the validity of that design. That’s like an amplifier designer saying distortion is desirable.
The enclosure should serve a technical purpose – mainly, preventing rear wave interference – not add its own "character" to the sound. If it does, it’s doing more harm than good.

This is a complete strawman argument. Did everyone wake up on the wrong side of the bed today?

 

[Audionaut]

I can only smile...

Lekha, so you're also making other threads unsafe.
You need to ask the question more specifically.
For example:
How would parameters and measured values change in a closed housing with dimensions X? In a corner horn? In a large bass reflex cabinet?
The smarter question, however, is why Sigberg chose this particular enclosure, because the possibilities for other enclosures are endless and therefore cannot really be answered because they are too unspecific.

 

[LSPhil]

That is simply unbelievable nonsense.
There are so many excellent PA drivers with outstanding measurement values and impulse and waterfall measurements that are close to the ideal.

What you describe occurs at best with subwoofer drivers with a heavy cone and two spiders.
However, this is independent of whether they are PA drivers or not.

I’d like to clarify that my point wasn’t to dismiss all PA drivers — far from it. I said “many” PA drivers are optimized for high output and durability, not that all of them lack refinement or precision. That’s a design tradeoff that’s well understood in loudspeaker engineering.
Of course, there are excellent PA drivers with outstanding measurements — some rivaling or even surpassing hi-fi transducers in certain metrics. But that doesn’t invalidate the fact that the primary design goals for many PA units often focus on efficiency, power handling, and reliability under stress, which may not align with low-level linearity or microdynamic resolution — especially in home or nearfield use.
Also, my comment wasn’t about subwoofers with dual spiders or heavy cones specifically — that’s a different design scenario. I was referring more generally to the prioritization of certain parameters over others in PA design, which inevitably leads to compromises depending on application.
I’m happy to discuss this further, but let’s keep it technical and not resort to dismissive language. We're all here to share and learn.

 

[Audionaut]

If a designer says they shape the sound with internal resonances or diffraction

Then a lot of English loudspeaker developers have done a lot of things wrong.
Of course you can use the resonances, including those of the cabinet, if you know what you are doing and if it improves the sound and the measurements.

 

[Audionaut]

This is a complete strawman argument. Did everyone wake up on the wrong side of the bed today?

Yes, it is exhausting.
A German band once released a song:
"It could be so easy. But it's not."

Good luck