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Sigberg Audio Manta (12" wideband cardioid active speakers) development thread

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sigbergaudio

sigbergaudio

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Experimenting with foam wedges (originally made for tilting studio monitors) to get a 4 degree tilt on the Mantas when placed on top of the 10D subwoofers. This is just a test, but considering to custom make these so they fit perfectly. So with a bit of imagination you could imagine these foam wedges filling out to the front and being made in a darker color, I think it will look pretty decent.

You loose 5 centimeters (~2 inches) height compared to the stand, so this gives a tweeter height of 92cm (as opposed to 97cm). I guess we could create a filler foam plate to add the lost height too if need be.


1665158664984.png




1665158681403.png
 
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sigbergaudio

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Experimenting with the integration between Manta and our subwoofers as well. This is an in-room measurements where two 10D subwoofers are connected via XLR through to each of the Mantas, so no external crossovers. The 10Ds roll off at 100hz (24db/octave), while the Mantas overlap quite a bit in the current configuration. -6dB in-room for the speakers is down at 40-50hz. The 75hz dip is due to the room.

So far it seems to both measure and sound great. :)


1665217680338.png
 

Vacceo

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Experimenting with the integration between Manta and our subwoofers as well. This is an in-room measurements where two 10D subwoofers are connected via XLR through to each of the Mantas, so no external crossovers. The 10Ds roll off at 100hz (24db/octave), while the Mantas overlap quite a bit in the current configuration. -6dB in-room for the speakers is down at 40-50hz. The 75hz dip is due to the room.

So far it seems to both measure and sound great. :)


1665217680338.png
I like the integration of both elements. I'm also curious about the subwoofers. I checked the numbers on your webpage and they seem to reach infrasonics. Could you elaborate a bit on that? I know you're more focused on music than film, but organ music also has infrasonics... ;)
 
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sigbergaudio

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I like the integration of both elements. I'm also curious about the subwoofers. I checked the numbers on your webpage and they seem to reach infrasonics. Could you elaborate a bit on that? I know you're more focused on music than film, but organ music also has infrasonics... ;)

Organ music is a bit of an edge case (not a huge part of the population that listen a lot to that, I don't think), but yes. Low end extension will vary somewhat according to your room and room gain (as with any sub).

But here is an example with dual 10Ds in a room that's about 30 m^2 (323 square feet):

Pretty much flat to around 18hz and then rolls of pretty hard du to high pass filters, so -6dB is around 16hz. So I'd say typical rooms will get a response rolling off somewhere between 15-20hz.

1665223703117.png




Here's a different somewhat smaller room (around 20m^2):
1665223955230.png
 

Vacceo

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Organ music is a bit of an edge case (not a huge part of the population that listen a lot to that, I don't think), but yes. Low end extension will vary somewhat according to your room and room gain (as with any sub).

But here is an example with dual 10Ds in a room that's about 30 m^2 (323 square feet):

Pretty much flat to around 18hz and then rolls of pretty hard du to high pass filters, so -6dB is around 16hz. So I'd say typical rooms will get a response rolling off somewhere between 15-20hz.

View attachment 235980



Here's a different somewhat smaller room (around 20m^2):
View attachment 235982
No wonder James Larson thought your speakers would make an impressive home theatre system.

Another question and this may influence all your product range: with the new Nilai amps from Hypex, what can be improved on your designs? Efficiency and SPL are obvious, but I am curious about what other elements can be further refined.

Last but not least, I hope I can find a user around here to try your speakers. I would love to listen to Emperor, Enslaved and Blood Red Throne on an actual, Norwegian made speaker.
 
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sigbergaudio

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No wonder James Larson thought your speakers would make an impressive home theatre system.

Another question and this may influence all your product range: with the new Nilai amps from Hypex, what can be improved on your designs? Efficiency and SPL are obvious, but I am curious about what other elements can be further refined.

Last but not least, I hope I can find a user around here to try your speakers. I would love to listen to Emperor, Enslaved and Blood Red Throne on an actual, Norwegian made speaker.

In my opinion the Hypex NCore amps are already transparent, and the modules we use are already well matched with the drivers in terms of power. So there won't really be any practical reason to move on to Nilai amps.

I spend a significant amount of time to ensure our products work well on rock and similar complex material, and our emphasis on midbass is also useful in this regard. That being said, we obviously can't work magic with poor recordings (not the case for all Norwegian metal, but some), allthough we also strive to have a balanced response so even less than perfect recordings sound decent.

Where do you live?
 

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Even material recorded in Grieghallen Studios, which are an amazing facility (I saw it in person years ago when I studied in Bergen) can be 'not that great' in production terms. Mayhem's De Misteriis Dom Sathanas (still a hands-dow , monumental record in the history of Black Metal) is proof of it.

I would never blame your speakers for reproducing what is in the record. I know it is extremely distorted, loud and muddy on the mix, but I love the material precisely for that. Good speakers can be known because they do not add extra "mess" to the one you already have. Due to the tendency of bad speakers to bloat the bass (and early Black Metal records do not have bloated bass), this kind of music makes those characteristics (poor design choices for me) shine.

Your approach detaching the deep bass may actually help a lot for this kind of music.

I live in the middle of nowhere in Spain.
 
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sigbergaudio

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Even material recorded in Grieghallen Studios, which are an amazing facility (I saw it in person years ago when I studied in Bergen) can be 'not that great' in production terms. Mayhem's De Misteriis Dom Sathanas (still a hands-dow , monumental record in the history of Black Metal) is proof of it.

I would never blame your speakers for reproducing what is in the record. I know it is extremely distorted, loud and muddy on the mix, but I love the material precisely for that. Good speakers can be known because they do not add extra "mess" to the one you already have. Due to the tendency of bad speakers to bloat the bass (and early Black Metal records do not have bloated bass), this kind of music makes those characteristics (poor design choices for me) shine.

Your approach detaching the deep bass may actually help a lot for this kind of music.

I live in the middle of nowhere in Spain.

Whether you bloat the bass or not is a user choice with our system, since you can both decide the level of the subwoofer (which plays up to 100hz if you have our speakers), and you also have built-in EQ with shelf features to further tailor the sound if necessary. Out of the box we have a slight emphasis on the midbass in our speakers. But the goal is to get proper and natural in-room sound level in the critical 100-300hz area (this area is often weak in many typical rooms), not to bloat it.

I don't think we've shipped to Spain yet actually. Or did we possibly send a couple of Inkognito subwoofers? At least not any speakers. So you have a chance of being the first. :p :)
 

Vacceo

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Whether you bloat the bass or not is a user choice with our system, since you can both decide the level of the subwoofer (which plays up to 100hz if you have our speakers), and you also have built-in EQ with shelf features to further tailor the sound if necessary. Out of the box we have a slight emphasis on the midbass in our speakers. But the goal is to get proper and natural in-room sound level in the critical 100-300hz area (this area is often weak in many typical rooms), not to bloat it.

I don't think we've shipped to Spain yet actually. Or did we possibly send a couple of Inkognito subwoofers? At least not any speakers. So you have a chance of being the first. :p :)
Who knows, a Primare AVP with Sigberg speakers, sounds like Scandinavia's best. :)

In technical terms and on paper, your speakers should have the SPL to work well on what Dirac is planning (active cancelation for EQ purposes) with their MIMO approach to room correction. That and the fact that even the Mantas are not that big considering you get a column with the subwoofers, the proposition is interesting in terms of function and aesthetics.
 
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sigbergaudio

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Who knows, a Primare AVP with Sigberg speakers, sounds like Scandinavia's best. :)

In technical terms and on paper, your speakers should have the SPL to work well on what Dirac is planning (active cancelation for EQ purposes) with their MIMO approach to room correction. That and the fact that even the Mantas are not that big considering you get a column with the subwoofers, the proposition is interesting in terms of function and aesthetics.

It's also worth mentioning that the Mantas will be over the top and have way more capacity than most people will need. The SBS.1 is more than powerful enough for most purposes.
 
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sigbergaudio

sigbergaudio

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A quick progress update:

  • New revision / prototype of the stands is in progress and will probable be done before xmas.
  • Preproduction cabinets are expected in January (produced by the company who will make the production cabinets)

So if there are no big misunderstandings on either of the above, we're on track for launch summer 2023, hopefully accepting preorders before Easter next year. :)
 

bogart

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A quick progress update:

  • New revision / prototype of the stands is in progress and will probable be done before xmas.
  • Preproduction cabinets are expected in January (produced by the company who will make the production cabinets)

So if there are no big misunderstandings on either of the above, we're on track for launch summer 2023, hopefully accepting preorders before Easter next year. :)
Ohhh my Easter basket is going to have to get much, much bigger. Might not have budget left for chocolates :facepalm:
 
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sigbergaudio

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sigbergaudio

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We had a long thread on what makes a good speaker for rock on a Norwegian audio forum, which I find very interesting since I think it's a difficult genre to get right, and many speakers fall short. I spend a lot of time making ours really master it, and the relatively "simple" formula is a balanced top end (a slight dip between 2-4khz may be favorable for some recordings), a slight focus on the upper bass / lower midrange, as well as plenty of capacity across the entire frequency range.

Sharing a few tracks that sound spectacular on the Manta. :)

 
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sigbergaudio

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New stands have arrived, this is likely the final design. Similar retro style as the first one, but with an "invisible" upper base that the speaker is resting on, so there's no visible edge below the wooden base.

In person it has a very similar feeling as the previous prototype, which I think is a good thing. :)


1668683038250.png
 
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sigbergaudio

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Is "brutally beautiful" an expression? That's at least the words that fall into my head in front of this system, and that goes for both the visuals and the sound. :cool:

Coming in 2023! :D
1668795833081.png
 
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D!sco

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Super cool. How does it handle rear reflections? If the side slots are out of phase and cancel the reflections, do you get out of phase reflections from the rear wall? And when is it going to Amir?
 
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sigbergaudio

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Super cool. How does it handle rear reflections? If the side slots are out of phase and cancel the reflections, do you get out of phase reflections from the rear wall? And when is it going to Amir?


Technically the slots don't cancel the reflections, they cancel out the sound from the speaker itself (wrapping around the speaker from the front), so the reflections never occur in the first place.

This means significantly less energy is going from the speaker both to the side and towards the rear compared to a traditional speaker. As a result the reflections both from the side wall and the rear wall is significantly reduced.

The following is based on measurements of the previous prototype, showing the energy at 90 and 180 degrees compared to a traditional enclosure. I expect the result to be even better in the final production version.
1644528890318-png.790209


1644528900717-png.790211
 
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New cabinets (preproduction units) left England today, so I'll have them towards the end of next week probably! Since we're coming up on Christmas pretty fast now, I'm not sure when they'll be assembled and tested. Also hopefully looking at a session in the Seas anechoic chamber early next year. :)

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