Sigberg Audio Inkognito: Building a "design" subwoofer that actually sounds good

[SigbergAudio]

Very nice, sigbergaudio! I think your tucks-under-furniture form factor fills a niche (literally as well as figuratively). Especially since you aren't compromising along the way.

Thank you! Yes I'm hoping there are people out there who are in a situation where they can't fill their living room with large boxes, but still want full, high quality sound. It's amazing what a well integrated subwoofer can do with compact or even on-wall speakers - suddenly you have a foundation and weight to the sound that even large floorstanders can't match! See, I should be in marketing!

 

[carlob]

I'll consider these once I move in my new place, please post also the 12" measures when you have them!

 

[SigbergAudio]

I'll consider these once I move in my new place, please post also the 12" measures when you have them!

Will do. The frequency response is posted further up, but will post compression test / CEA2010 - hopefully next week. I have two 12" on loan to magazines, and hope to get back at least one of them this week.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Purchases are however open world-wide as we speak. Rough USD prices (exchange rate will vary):

Inkognito 10 (so the 10" version): ~2270USD + shipping and import tax/customs.
Inkognito 12 (so the 12" version): ~2650USD + shipping and import tax/customs.

Shipping to Europe: flat fee of ~115USD
Shipping to the rest of the world (so including USA): flat fee of ~170USD

So 2240USD for 10" and 2790USD for the 12" including US shipping then. Import taxes/VAT is on you.

Can you check your math? I doubt if the Inkognito 10 is cheaper with shipping than it is without.

 

[SigbergAudio]

Can you check your math? I doubt if the Inkognito 10 is cheaper with shipping than it is without.

That would indeed have been an interesting concept. Thanks for pointing that out.

The correct sum would be 2420USD not 2240USD. I suspect it wasn't math, but just me typing a bit too fast.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

That would indeed have been an interesting concept. Thanks for pointing that out.

The correct sum would be 2420USD not 2240USD. I suspect it wasn't math, but just me typing a bit too fast.

If it's straight base10 math, I would say it is 2440USD for the 10' and 2820USD for the 12". I hope you become successful enough to hire an accountant!

 

[SigbergAudio]

If it's straight base10 math, I would say it is 2440USD for the 10' and 2820USD for the 12". I hope you become successful enough to hire an accountant!

Haha, I didn't even read my previous post and calculated based on 150USD (it's 1500NOK), but apparently it was 170USD. I have no idea how I botched up both numbers in the initial post. I think I need a vacation.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Haha, I didn't even read my previous post and calculated based on 150USD (it's 1500NOK), but apparently it was 170USD. I have no idea how I botched up both numbers in the initial post. I think I need a vacation.

OK. Send me two subs and we'll be even.

 

[FeddyLost]

Have you ever calculated something with 2 drivers? Like 2x10" or 2x12"?
It looks like there are lot of place for second driver to get more clean SPL.

 

[SigbergAudio]

Have you ever calculated something with 2 drivers? Like 2x10" or 2x12"?
It looks like there are lot of place for second driver to get more clean SPL.

It's not just about physical space, the drivers need volume as well. 2x10" or 2x12" would need a significantly larger box (essentially twice as big). There's no free lunch anywhere, so it's hard to both get lots of clean SPL and have a small box. But I'm in discussion with a driver manufacturer and will probably build even more powerful versions of these shallow subwoofers in the future using custom drivers. Also note that the current compression graphs and CEA2010 measurements are from the 10" version. Will hopefully post for the 12" version soon, perhaps next week.

 

[FeddyLost]

so it's hard to both get lots of clean SPL and have a small box

Maybe some servo will help. But most probably in finished state servo solution will cost more and SPL that you already have is enough for anyone from your target audience.

Have you seriously worked with focus groups regarding these subwoofer shapes?
It's interesting, because I can't really remember even few subwoofers with "non-cubical" design.
Maybe something with corner placement and DRC will be useful also. Like Atlantic Technology 10 CSB, but better.

 

[SigbergAudio]

Maybe some servo will help. But most probably in finished state servo solution will cost more and SPL that you already have is enough for anyone from your target audience.

Have you seriously worked with focus groups regarding these subwoofer shapes?
It's interesting, because I can't really remember even few subwoofers with "non-cubical" design.
Maybe something with corner placement and DRC will be useful also. Like Atlantic Technology 10 CSB, but better.

With regards to focus groups, There was done some research and surveys initially that helped guide a number of design choices. But the work on understanding the market still continues now, as we have an active test pilot program where people can test pre-production versions of these subwoofers in their own homes for free. This gives a lot of valuable feedback both on form factor, finish and of course sound quality etc.

Feedback from forums like this is of course valuable and interesting as well.

I have briefly considered a corner thing as well, not anything concrete planned. And yes, the current SPL will be enough for many. People who were previously 2.0 / high-end purists who only had a pure stereo setup are now slowly becoming curious about subwoofers, understanding that it can add another dimension to their setup, if integrated properly. And for most music you will have to play very loud to run out of steam even with the 10" version. Also, some of course already have very expensive gear, so they're open to purchasing two as well. If the main focus is maximum SPL for movies, there are other subwoofers that will be a better choice. But if you want a high quality subwoofer for your living room where you are limited in space and WAF, these subwoofers will still deliver quite impressive sound pressure even for movies, and as far as I know there's nothing else like it out there.

Next week I'm loaning a 10" version to a guy who has a dedicated cinema with 32(thirty-two) 10" drivers - but now he wants something invisible to add fullness to the system he has in his living room. Different needs, different products.

 

[FeddyLost]

who has a dedicated cinema with 32(thirty-two) 10" drivers - but now he wants something invisible

That's really sounds strange.

Have you considered BR or TL enclosures tuned around 20 Hz to reduce distortion in low end? Or they are getting too big?

 

[SigbergAudio]

That's really sounds strange.

Have you considered BR or TL enclosures tuned around 20 Hz to reduce distortion in low end? Or they are getting too big?

What sounds strange? To be clear he isn't removing or replacing his home theater room.

They will be too big. And distortion isn't high in the low end as long as you play within the capabilities of the sub.

In this measurement (still 10") the sub is below 10% (generally considered to be inaudible) from 20hz and up, and below 4% from 30hz and up.

 

[jhaider]

View attachment 80635

This concept is the kind of thinking home audio needs.

IMO the next level would be collaborating with an artist to make that white expanse even less obtrusive, and figuring out an alternative plate amp mounting scheme so all wires can be concealed. Even better, take the plate amp out of the subwoofer cabinet and give it its own enclosure, so that the subwoofer only needs a recessed speakON. That way only speaker wire needs to be run to the sub. Many of these kinds of installations ultimately fail to meet the aesthetic goals because of all the damn wiring hanging off the box. A wall-mounted sub can look great. Two cables jutting out of one side, not so much.

 

[SigbergAudio]

This concept is the kind of thinking home audio needs.

IMO the next level would be collaborating with an artist to make that white expanse even less obtrusive, and figuring out an alternative plate amp mounting scheme so all wires can be concealed. Even better, take the plate amp out of the subwoofer cabinet and give it its own enclosure, so that the subwoofer only needs a recessed speakON. That way only speaker wire needs to be run to the sub. Many of these kinds of installations ultimately fail to meet the aesthetic goals because of all the damn wiring hanging off the box. A wall-mounted sub can look great. Two cables jutting out of one side, not so much.

Agreed, so I've been looking into wireless options, I also considered having the amp on the back (same side as the driver), but that makes it pretty fiddly to adjust it, but we considered having it recessed somehow so you could reach it from the side. But at least on the floor the amp is only on one of four sides, so it should be possible to place it so it's hidden or partially hidden. And for wall placement many will opt to place it somewhere out of sight. Behind speakers, behind the TV or behind other types of furniture.

We also at least ship with an 90 degree angled AC-plug (so it protrudes minimally from the sub), and the same color as the sub. And you can get angled RCA-adapters as well. That way you could get a pretty clean setup with cables running basically in a straight line along the sub and straight down.

But having an external amplifier is certainly an interesting idea as well. I've been looking at that route for on-wall speakers (which may be added to this line), but perhaps a good idea for the subwoofer as well. But that would require a custom amplifier, there's to my knowledge no off-the-shelf solution with DSP that has a pricing that works out.

With regards to color we already offer custom color, so in theory you could get one the same color as your wall, or perhaps a contrast color.

 

[Trouble Maker]

There is little that can be done about the need for some wires, at least power. But more can be done to hide them for sure.

I wonder if recessing the amp enough for the depth of connects and having a removable cover over the amp could be an option? You still have to worry about the wires hanging out, but at least your not looking at the connectors and everything else on the amp. There could be a channel out of the 'bottom' for the wires to run out. Then If the customer hangs it on the wall or puts it on the floor in the open and wants to truly hide the wires than they can install (or have someone install) some high and low voltage plates/plugs behind or below where the sub is.

 

[SigbergAudio]

There is little that can be done about the need for some wires, at least power. But more can be done to hide them for sure.

I wonder if recessing the amp enough for the depth of connects and having a removable cover over the amp could be an option? You still have to worry about the wires hanging out, but at least your not looking at the connectors and everything else on the amp. There could be a channel out of the 'bottom' for the wires to run out. Then If the customer hangs it on the wall or puts it on the floor in the open and wants to truly hide the wires than they can install (or have someone install) some high and low voltage plates/plugs behind or below where the sub is.

Yes, we've discussed this briefly. The plate of the amp is actually also how it is cooled, so adding a completely closed cover over it would not work very well from a cooling perspective. So it would have to have quite large openings at the bottom and top probably, to keep the amplifier from overheating. The mechanism for securing the cover also had to work both when it's vertical (hanging on a wall) and horizontal (on the floor), so there's a few things to consider. But I'll give it some more thoughts. We already have custom made wall brackets in aluminimum, so the same source could probably create a cover, if we figure a design that works.

 

[SigbergAudio]

Something like this may be the easiest to construct, but still largely hide the amp: Having the amp on the back (same side as driver, so facing the wall), but all the way to one side and recessed 1-2cm so the controls and cables are still accessible from the side without taking the subwoofer down from the wall:

 

[SigbergAudio]

Got an Inkognito 12 (12") up and running too, as expected roughly 2,5-3dB more output in the CEA2010 test.