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I thought that the fake sound was to the outside of the car so that a blind person at a crossing would not step in front of one?
There is a mandatory external sound for that purpose which I can just hear inside the car, it goes off above about 30 mph.
I was meaning the fake internal sound made for people who still think a car making a noise is a feature rather than a bug ;)

The reality is most piston engines sound crap and those that don't are increasingly rare because they are inefficient and fuel is expensive.
 
I said "Oy!" when I read your "demo drive" part, and then I gulped and gasped (+ an expletive) at the last 2 words.
I apologize and I congratulate you!
Not the Luce, that was a Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo which I have now been driving almost 4 years. I detest SUVs, much prefer cars, which limits choice of any vehicle these days, piston or electric.

I would probably buy the Ferrari if I could afford it.
I may get a demo at my local dealer :)
 
Picked up an Ineos Grenadier not long ago.

Great adventure mobile. Aweful audio system.

Replaced the audio system with three way fronts with the mids and highs up on the A Pillars. Mid bass in the doors, and a sub in the cargo area. All DSP and active cross overs. Sounds so much better.
 

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Picked up an Ineos Grenadier not long ago.

Great adventure mobile. Aweful audio system.

Replaced the audio system with three way fronts with the mids and highs up on the A Pillars. Mid bass in the doors, and a sub in the cargo area. All DSP and active cross overs. Sounds so much better.
Interesting about the Grenadier and the Toyota Supra is that they both use the B58 engine from BMW, which is supposedly a reliable engine -- not by BMW standards, but by more mainstream standards. Toyota allegedly did serious stress testing on the B58 before getting in bed with BMW.

Truth be told, though, my reliability woes with German cars have tended to do with things other than the engine (suspension, electronics, etc.).

I hope you enjoy your new car, and have lots of trouble free fun.
 
Interesting about the Grenadier and the Toyota Supra is that they both use the B58 engine from BMW, which is supposedly a reliable engine -- not by BMW standards, but by more mainstream standards. Toyota allegedly did serious stress testing on the B58 before getting in bed with BMW.

Truth be told, though, my reliability woes with German cars have tended to do with things other than the engine (suspension, electronics, etc.).

I hope you enjoy your new car, and have lots of trouble free fun.

I’ve seen a post from a 100K mile Grenadier owner, front drive shaft replaced under warranty (boot rip), wear n tear replacement for brakes and tires, no engine issues. The B58 in Grenadier is de-tuned and makes about 100hp less than the B58 in the Supra. Different torque delivery too. I do like the shifter from the Supra better, will be swapping one into the Grenadier.
 
Picked up an Ineos Grenadier not long ago.

Great adventure mobile. Aweful audio system.

Replaced the audio system with three way fronts with the mids and highs up on the A Pillars. Mid bass in the doors, and a sub in the cargo area. All DSP and active cross overs. Sounds so much better.
Most factory car audio systems (and even bigger disappointment's with Big Name ones), sound like screaming children or worse.
And then they integrate them into the car, making it difficult and expensive to get proper sound in a car.
There is a mandatory external sound for that purpose which I can just hear inside the car, it goes off above about 30 mph.
I was meaning the fake internal sound made for people who still think a car making a noise is a feature rather than a bug ;)

The reality is most piston engines sound crap and those that don't are increasingly rare because they are inefficient and fuel is expensive.
You and I have a different opinion on the sound of piston engines (at least some of them), I enjoy. But faking it is ridiculous. As you say, for many, part of the allure of an electric car is the silence.
As to the exhaust noise of piston engines (and I do subscribe to the "loud pipes for safety") but many seem to think that the more excessive the noise, the more people will enjoy it. And that is also ridiculous. I have heard many that are loud enough (and louder than stock), yet subdued but enough to let a pedestrian know something is coming without the sound level blasting them (and the inside of peoples homes or offices).
And it's not just the DB's but the FR, that no one seems to mention.
 
Not the Luce, that was a Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo which I have now been driving almost 4 years. I detest SUVs, much prefer cars, which limits choice of any vehicle these days, piston or electric.

I would probably buy the Ferrari if I could afford it.
I may get a demo at my local dealer :)
I think you've had your Taycan for over a year now.
I assumed that you got so addicted to eJuice and -thus- pulled the trigger on the Luce!
My Bad! :facepalm:
 
Not the Luce, that was a Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo which I have now been driving almost 4 years. I detest SUVs, much prefer cars, which limits choice of any vehicle these days, piston or electric.

I would probably buy the Ferrari if I could afford it.
I may get a demo at my local dealer :)
Damn the Ferrari is beautiful!
But: it sure is not about saving money!
That leaves me with 2 questions:
1. Will it be as reliable (for Ferrari) as other Ferraris? (Yeah, I know, some where more reliable than others [a friend has a 1968 365GTB that has been unusually reliable])
2. What will it's value be in 10 years?
I'll have to wait and see, I guess.
 
Damn the Ferrari is beautiful!
But: it sure is not about saving money!
That leaves me with 2 questions:
1. Will it be as reliable (for Ferrari) as other Ferraris? (Yeah, I know, some where more reliable than others [a friend has a 1968 365GTB that has been unusually reliable])
2. What will it's value be in 10 years?
I'll have to wait and see, I guess.
My experience of one owner ;) Ferrari is more reliable than Porsche and Mercedes and Toyota are both 100% reliable.
But that isn't a statistically valid sample set.
Depreciation is a weird thing it depends on rarity but more on image than it probably should.

I like the Luce styling, particularly the interior, better than any recent Ferrari and it is the interior thew owner sees most.
I have always thought buying a car that looks great on the outside but is unergonomic inside or inconvenient to use is the definition of buying a car to brag about.

I am too old and experienced to be influenced by styling aimed at the 16 year old's bedroom wall poster.

Most motoring journalists are not.
 
My experience of one owner ;) Ferrari is more reliable than Porsche and Mercedes and Toyota are both 100% reliable.
But that isn't a statistically valid sample set.
Depreciation is a weird thing it depends on rarity but more on image than it probably should.

I like the Luce styling, particularly the interior, better than any recent Ferrari and it is the interior thew owner sees most.
I have always thought buying a car that looks great on the outside but is unergonomic inside or inconvenient to use is the definition of buying a car to brag about.

I am too old and experienced to be influenced by styling aimed at the 16 year old's bedroom wall poster.

Most motoring journalists are not.
For me, it's impractical, but that doesn't make it NOT beautiful.
As to reliability (I have worked on a few [Ferrari, Maserati Mexico and others {and also for the Porsche factory for 4 years}). People do not seem to understand that improperly storing a vehicle and improperly bringing it out of storage is both abuse and neglect, which can create failures in reliability. And WILL cost time and money to rectify.
 
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The reality is most piston engines sound crap and those that don't are increasingly rare because they are inefficient and fuel is expensive.
A few cars with piston engines (in the last 25 years or so) that I thought sounded pretty good:
Some things just make you happy to be alive - here are six of them...
(Photos and text taken from [and edited by me])
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Saturday 21st January 23

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TVR Cerbera, 1996, 47k, £31,000​

A British entrant: Now, this list isn’t about the most reliable V8s, remember, so the fact they’re made by TVR doesn’t come into it, and by all accounts a well-serviced AJP8 isn’t as bad as you might think. This flat-plane crank V8 is raw and immediate, with a ferocious appetite for revs. Once you get it past 4,000rpm you’re in heaven, because that’s when it’s howling its heads off – not literally, hopefully, and as this early Cerbera had a bottom-end rebuild 10,000 miles ago that should be in good shape, too.

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Maserati Gransport, 2006, 74k, £22,950​

This engine was a no-brainer. Maserati’s Tipo F136 R V8 is an absolute gem of a thing, whatever it’s in. This great-value Gransport seems like the best installation: a F136 in a light-ish body just feels right. And you get a proper symphony as you explore different reaches of the rev range. It starts with the fruity, low-end warble, then builds through various stages – all equally delightful – to a high-revving, highly tuned crescendo at the top end. It’s so lovely that you don’t need a sports exhaust fitted to enjoy it, but that’s not to say you shouldn’t add one. Something like a Tubi system will release even more wonder – go on YouTube and search Maserati 4200 Tubi, look out for a Swiss-registered car hooning off from a standing start. Talk about sublime.

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Ferrari 458 Speciale, 2014, 10k, £314,995​

No, it’s not the same engine as the Maser’s. Well, not entirely. For a start, it’s the Tipo F136 F, not R, and here it’s 4.5-litres. Most significantly, though, it swaps the cross-plane crank for the flat-plane variety. That changes the engine’s character completely to something rather harder-edged and higher revving. Contrary to popular belief, this engine was originally Maserati's, arriving first in the 4200 in 2001. It was then developed by Ferrari when it ran out of road to increase the capacity of its F131. Its crowning glory was in the 458 Speciale, and this one that's showing 10,000 miles is the perfect spec. The Speciale raised the rev limit to 9,000rpm, which delivered 135hp per litre – an astonishing amount for a naturally aspirated V8. At the time, I believe that was the most hp per litre of any series production car, and it still outdoes the latest 992 GT3 RS. In total, that gave it 605hp, but this is about noise not power. Be in no doubt about that, though: this motor delivers high-rpm thrills to send chills down the spine.

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Lexus LC500 Coupe, 2018, 15k, £57,995​

The Lexus V8 deserved a place on its own merits. In part, because it’s nice to share the love around different nations, but also because it’s a darn fine motor in its own right and sounds great. It’s naturally aspirated, all aluminium, and boasts direct injection, Dual VVT-i and 32-valves. Nothing amazing there, and when it first appeared in the LS in 2007 it was just another smooth and quiet V8 – perfectly apt for a limo. That all changed when Lexus handed it over to Yamaha, who turned out the 2UR-GSE. This had new high-flow heads with high-lift cams, titanium exhaust valves and a variable length inlet tract. It meant a 5.0-litre V8 with much more freneticism at the top end and a soundtrack to match. It sounds at its very best in competition spec, in the Toyota GR DKR Hilux – in a Saudi Dakar that was without doubt the best-sounding engine in the race – but even in road trim it’s still something to behold. And in something like this low-mileage LC500 you get the looks to match the noise.

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Ford Mustang Mach 1, 2021, 2k, £51,995​

The 5.0-litre Coyote makes all the right noises, but in the Mach 1 it has the extra twist of its snortier induction system and brace of 4.5-inch pipes sticking out the back. It adds a bit more depth of character to what’s already a very characterful lump. And the character is quite Jekyll-and-Hyde, awash with low-down torque that you ride listening to its lazy, old-school Yankee burbling, but when you go in search of the 7,500rpm limiter that all changes. About halfway round the tachometer the noise flicks from muscle car to NASCAR and takes on rather more serious edge. By that stage, it’s what you might describe as a bit rude, but in a good way.

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Mercedes-AMG C63 Edition 507, 2014, 60k, £36,950​

With four countries ticked off, it’s time to end in Germany. Affalterbach to be precise, and the home of AMG. The M156 was its first in-house motor and a bit special. At 6.2-litres it’s by far the biggest capacity of anything here, and that means it has the heartiest lungs. The rolling thunder it generates could easily be mistaken for something aeronautical rather than automotive. If you hear one go by it’s truly distinctive and penetrating, with a deep, bassy bellow punctuated by crisp rasps with every gear change. And you’ll still be hearing it once it’s gone by, for quite some time. This C63 Edition 507 comes with an extra 50hp added into the mix. That was courtesy of the revised ECU, new conrods, lightweight crankshaft and forged pistons, all picked from the SLS AMG. Think of the 507, then, as God gargling with thunder and spitting lightning.

(EJ3: This last one is my personal favorite for the sound).
 
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Not the Luce, that was a Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo which I have now been driving almost 4 years. I detest SUVs, much prefer cars, which limits choice of any vehicle these days, piston or electric.

I would probably buy the Ferrari if I could afford it.
I may get a demo at my local dealer :)
I share your opinion of SUVs. This is my latest addition along with my public statement . This is the Handschalter version. Z4 went out of production last month.
IMG_4244.jpeg
 
I share your opinion of SUVs. This is my latest addition along with my public statement . This is the Handschalter version. Z4 went out of production last month.
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OMG this is amazing car. It will remain classic for years so if you don't put many miles on it, it will probably be worth double in 5 or so years.

Respect...
 

Ford Mustang Mach 1, 2021, 2k, £51,995​

The 5.0-litre Coyote makes all the right noises, but in the Mach 1 it has the extra twist of its snortier induction system and brace of 4.5-inch pipes sticking out the back. It adds a bit more depth of character to what’s already a very characterful lump. And the character is quite Jekyll-and-Hyde, awash with low-down torque that you ride listening to its lazy, old-school Yankee burbling, but when you go in search of the 7,500rpm limiter that all changes. About halfway round the tachometer the noise flicks from muscle car to NASCAR and takes on rather more serious edge. By that stage, it’s what you might describe as a bit rude, but in a good way.
That is the only one that you get a Like from me... for. Sorry.:(

Ignoring the sound-fakery of Eco-boost and or Mach-E; since 2019, modern Mustangs include active exhaust systems that use tubes valves allowing drivers to select between a high-SPL sax or a growling pipe-organ exhaust notes. In the 'high performance' mode, it sounds more like rat-a-tat-a-tat of an unmuffled, large bore automatic gun.
There is absolutely no need for a stereo (...or robbing your 401K plan) to own your own Mustang GT (NA V8/6-speed).
It is absolutely a hoot to drive and the last standing muscle-car that is still the champ of Bang-for-the-Buck!
[as always YMMV!]
 
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