Show us your bicycles!

[Chr1]

Rolling along in 1910

View attachment 416507

Wow. So I am curious about this...

Like : how would it work?
Surely your front wheel would not stay on the train track for long without incredible skill and/or luck?
Seems to me that there will still be enough movement/play in the steering, such that you'd have to be very skilled not to keep coming off, surely?

 

[Count Arthur]

Wow. So I am curious about this...

Like : how would it work?
Surely your front wheel would not stay on the train track for long without incredible skill and/or luck?
Seems to me that there will still be enough movement/play in the steering, such that you'd have to be very skilled not to keep coming off, surely?

I imagine once attached to the bicycle the whole set-up was rigid, so the front wheel was fixed in place. If you notice the small third wheel has a flange either side of it which would keep the whole system in place and guide you along the tracks.

 

[IPunchCholla]

Why assume it worked? No one is moving in that photo, they are all posed. In 1910 they had film fast enough to freeze motion, but that ain’t frozen motion.

Flanges don’t keep trains on tracks, that comes from the wheels being conical and on fixed axles, while the rails are sloped. It’s essentially an optimized version of a ball in a trough.

Without a lot of cross bracing on the support rods, the front wheel is going to turn enough to come off the track, since it isn’t conical and linked to the wheel on the other rail by a fixed axle.

Though this is how they do road traveling vehicles on tracks. Just both sides, rather than one, kinda.

 

[Chr1]

This is what I was thinking...

So a faked photo basically.

I'd put money on no one getting further than a few feet myself.

 

[Count Arthur]

 

[IPunchCholla]

That works, for very narrow definitions of works, because it uses rollercoaster mechanisms to align the front wheel with the Track. For a smooth track, you’d be better off without the counter balance and just doing that with the rear wheel too. Starting would be tricky, but you’d have two way traffic.

Really though, you’re best off just pulling and recycling the rails and removing the ties and paving or trailizing it. Which of course, is what we do.

 

[Holmz]

I imagine once attached to the bicycle the whole set-up was rigid, so the front wheel was fixed in place. If you notice the small third wheel has a flange either side of it which would keep the whole system in place and guide you along the tracks.

They just need to set the anti skate and VTA.
The Baerwald alignment might be better than a Stevenson.

 

[somebodyelse]

Flanges don’t keep trains on tracks, that comes from the wheels being conical and on fixed axles, while the rails are sloped. It’s essentially an optimized version of a ball in a trough.

That's right for almost all 'proper' rail vehicles, but not for everything. Most of the exceptions are maintenance equipment, like the Unimog road-railer where the flanged wheels are used for guidance to keep the rubber wheels on the railhead. Then there's the Talgo system which I think is still unique.

 

[somebodyelse]

That works, for very narrow definitions of works, because it uses rollercoaster mechanisms to align the front wheel with the Track. For a smooth track, you’d be better off without the counter balance and just doing that with the rear wheel too. Starting would be tricky, but you’d have two way traffic.

Not sure if this is a more refined version from the same guy, or an independent implementation. Either way it seems to work pretty well.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Watching these rail videos gives me stress... haven't these guys seen all of those movies where a train appears around the corner on an "abandoned" section of tacks?

 

[Chr1]

Indeed...

Or Buster Keaton or Charlie Chaplin stylee...

 

[IPunchCholla]

Not sure if this is a more refined version from the same guy, or an independent implementation. Either way it seems to work pretty well.

It does seem to work well!

 

[Count Arthur]

Watching these rail videos gives me stress... haven't these guys seen all of those movies where a train appears around the corner on an "abandoned" section of tacks?

I think you can stop stressing, there are no damsels tied to the tracks.

 

[Tom C]

Not sure if this is a more refined version from the same guy, or an independent implementation. Either way it seems to work pretty well.

Pretty cool!

 

[rdenney]

That works, for very narrow definitions of works, because it uses rollercoaster mechanisms to align the front wheel with the Track. For a smooth track, you’d be better off without the counter balance and just doing that with the rear wheel too. Starting would be tricky, but you’d have two way traffic.

Really though, you’re best off just pulling and recycling the rails and removing the ties and paving or trailizing it. Which of course, is what we do.

Disagree. Without the outrigger, the balance is on two points and unstable. A bicycle needs the side-to-side motion to keep the contact points surrounding the gravity vector passing through the rolling surface. The front rail guide is what keeps the front wheel on the track, but it prevents that side-to-side motion, and without that the cyclist and his bike would fall over very quickly, unless he's a trained high-wire specialist with supreme balance. The outrigger provides three points of contact with the surface, and as long as the outrigger allows the bicycle to lean slightly so that the gravity vector stays inside the three contact points, it's a stable arrangement.

Rick "fortunately tracks don't turn fast" Denney

 

[rdenney]

That's right for almost all 'proper' rail vehicles, but not for everything. Most of the exceptions are maintenance equipment, like the Unimog road-railer where the flanged wheels are used for guidance to keep the rubber wheels on the railhead. Then there's the Talgo system which I think is still unique.

Even then, the flanges keep the bogeys centered on the track when there's any lateral acceleration that overcomes the track-head camber. That's why you hear rail cars screeching when going around tight turns in a yard.

But trains will fall over, too, if the gravity vector falls outside the space between the tracks.

Rick "curves have speed limits even with trains" Denney

 

[Holmz]

Even then, the flanges keep the bogeys centered on the track when there's any lateral acceleration that overcomes the track-head camber. That's why you hear rail cars screeching when going around tight turns in a yard.

But trains will fall over, too, if the gravity vector falls outside the space between the tracks.

Rick "curves have speed limits even with trains" Denney

Disagree. Without the outrigger, the balance is on two points and unstable. A bicycle needs the side-to-side motion to keep the contact points surrounding the gravity vector passing through the rolling surface. The front rail guide is what keeps the front wheel on the track, but it prevents that side-to-side motion, and without that the cyclist and his bike would fall over very quickly, unless he's a trained high-wire specialist with supreme balance. The outrigger provides three points of contact with the surface, and as long as the outrigger allows the bicycle to lean slightly so that the gravity vector stays inside the three contact points, it's a stable arrangement.

Rick "fortunately tracks don't turn fast" Denney

Is that why bicycles with extra wheels (>2) are called bicycles with TRAINing wheels?

 

[Count Arthur]

Even then, the flanges keep the bogeys centered on the track when there's any lateral acceleration that overcomes the track-head camber. That's why you hear rail cars screeching when going around tight turns in a yard.

But trains will fall over, too, if the gravity vector falls outside the space between the tracks.

Rick "curves have speed limits even with trains" Denney

Like so:

So, if the wheel on the "outrigger" in the original image had a profile something like this:

It would have a tendency to centre itself on the rail and, provided the wheels on the bicycle were fixed in relation to it, it should all work. Rail tracks curve only very gently, so over the 1 metre, or so, wheelbase typical of a bicycle, it would always be effectively straight.

 

[Chr1]

However... Unfortunately, due to the inherent, inbuilt play and movement in the: handlebars, front wheel and forks, it won't work though. (They are not fixed.)

Unless, as mentioned earlier, you have an extremely skilled and/or very lucky person riding it.

 

[somebodyelse]

Even then, the flanges keep the bogeys centered on the track when there's any lateral acceleration that overcomes the track-head camber. That's why you hear rail cars screeching when going around tight turns in a yard.

But trains will fall over, too, if the gravity vector falls outside the space between the tracks.

Rick "curves have speed limits even with trains" Denney

Indeed. It wasn't my area, but I knew a few who specialised in vehicle dynamics, wheel/rail interactions and derailment investigation. Those who find these sort of details interesting might like to look up flange lubrication, cant deficiency and flange climb derailment.