They look great. My worry with that system is the size/robustness trade off, potentially exacerbated by the 90 degree shift in rotation axis required.
(I have no objective basis for that concern other than "oh, that looks more difficult")
-
Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
(I have no objective basis for that concern other than "oh, that looks more difficult")
Not in the UK (and I beleive EU). Here an e-bike must be limited in power and assist speed in order to be classed as an electric assisted cycle. When so recognised it can be used anywhere a non assisted bike can be used.
If it is not so recognised it becomes legally a motor vehicle and must comply with all associated regs - including tax and insurance. Since you can't tax them, and no-one will insure them - and they don't meet the other requirements such as lighting, they effectively become illegal to use anywhere except on private land.
It just looks better
somebodyelse
Master Contributor
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2018
- Messages
- 6,594
- Likes
- 6,463
I think it's mostly a natural consequence of making a well packaged e-bike with an emphasis on minimising weight. A 'normal' bike frame is pretty well optimised structurally. Putting as much as you can inside the frame via minimal openings lets you avoid the weight of extra casing and mounting systems with minimal compromise to the frame structure. The fixed battery has obvious down sides of course, and we have yet to see whether it affects reliability and ease of maintenance.
The Fazua system shown seems to have a removal battery. You can see the plastic of it on the underside of the down tube. I think they also do versions with integrated battery (non removable)
That clarity has not been codified in most places in the USA. I've seen people motoring along on their electric motorcycles (by the definition you relay) on trails that prohibit motor vehicles. I thought I was a hazard on those trails on my unassisted bike with the speeds that I ride. It's hilly here--an electric motorcycle could be fashioned to look enough like a human-powered bicycle to fool any enforcement authority when going downhill and pedaling isn't expected.
Not that anybody enforces anything on the trails I use.
Cyclists in the USA (with a few local exceptions) are not required to license or insure bicycles even when riding on the public streets, so that boundary between what is a bicycle and what is a motorcycle is important for that reason as well.
Personally, for an e-bike to avoid being a motorcycle, a couple of things should be true: 1.) able to achieve speeds no greater than the same person could achieve (albeit briefly) on a non-assisted bike, and 2.) provides assistance commensurate with pedaling input. But even then, putting them on a crowded ped/bike trail means that those going fast won't be limited to experienced and fit cyclists who at least nominally correlate to those who have reasonable bike-handling skills. But, as I said, it's hilly here and we often have people going faster than their skills even without motor assistance.
Rick "not discounting the value of e-bikes for getting people on bikes who would otherwise be unable to ride at all" Denney
somebodyelse
Master Contributor
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2018
- Messages
- 6,594
- Likes
- 6,463
It's not exactly well enforced in the UK either, which is part of the problem. IIRC legally here the electric assistance is only supposed to operate while you pedal, and only up to 15mph. Not sure about the power limit, but that seems pretty close to your personal definition, and not unreasonable as broadly equivalent to what's possible unassisted. Electric scooters are only legal on the road when owned by an approved hire scheme (which provides the insurance) - the very same scooter couldn't be used if privately owned, even if you had somehow obtained insurance. Logic? We've heard of the concept... but I've yet to see anyone stopped for using an electric scooter on the road which isn't unusual round here. I've not seen anyone killed on one either though, which is surprising given the way they're often ridden.
Very... very much this
I lead a cyling group for retired folk. About half are using e-bikes. Most of those would not cycle at all if they didn't exist. One chap is 85 - he happily overtakes me on the (up) hills. He doesn't go much faster on the (down) hills - he knows his limitations
E-bikes : enable people to start riding who otherwise might not. Enable people to continue riding who otherwise might have to stop.
I'll get one, one day. When I need it.
Power limit is 250W - but it is a weirdly defined "continuous" or "average" limit. Plenty of power/torque can be made available for acceleration, and 250W is more than enough for maintaining the 15 (actually 25kph - 15.5mph) on the flat or even a slight up hill.
anotherhobby
Addicted to Fun and Learning
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2021
- Messages
- 759
- Likes
- 1,845
I can't agree more with this also! I have fairly acute exercised enduced asthema. For reference, I can't run hard or tread water for longer than about 5 minutes before my lungs decide to stop working correctly. Bicycling is one of the activites that also triggers it easily if I start to push much at all. Even though Minneapois is one of the best biking cities in the USA, the asthema issue has relegated cycling to a rare thing me, and I'd rather jump on my motorcycle. As you'd imagine, I've generally avoided biking most of my life.Very... very much this
I lead a cyling group for retired folk. About half are using e-bikes. Most of those would not cycle at all if they didn't exist. One chap is 85 - he happily overtakes me on the (up) hills. He doesn't go much faster on the (down) hills - he knows his limitations
E-bikes : enable people to start riding who otherwise might not. Enable people to continue riding who otherwise might have to stop.
I'll get one, one day. When I need it.
My wife loves biking, so last year I finally splurged on an e-bike and got a Benno Boost, and it changed EVERYTHING. I ride that thing all over the place. I go shopping, get groceries, run to the hardware store, and do lots and lots of joy riding with my wife. It closes the gap so I don't experience asthema and can more than keep up with anybody I'm with. So for me, the reality is very much a case of e-bike or no bike.
I got a demo R&M Load 60 for a sensible price some 5 years ago. I use it mainly in the cold season to commute to the office (now 10 km one way) and for shopping. If it's cold I can wear a down jacket and if it then gets too warm I can reduce my own power and increase the e-power so I don't reach the office sweating like hell. In summer it's hot here anyway regardless of what I wear so I ride my recumbent, a 20 year old HP Velotechnik Streetmachine GT. It's faster and more comfortable.
Keith_W
Master Contributor
My folks are in the mid 70's and they use e-bikes to keep up with my sister. I am glad for e-bikes, it keeps them active. Last year they went on a cycling tour in Europe where they rode 60-100km a day using rental e-bikes. I am younger than them and I can only do 60km on my normal bike. It made me wonder whether e-bikes can double my range (I would hope so, because if it doesn't then it means my parents are fitter than me!).
That Load 60 looks an interesting machine. I had a streetmachine GT for a couple of years, but didn't get on with it. Being short, I could only get a toe down on the ground when stationary, and it would sometimes slip away leaving me in an embarrassing heap of man and machine on the road. I ride an ICE trike now for my recumbent fun.
You can load up to 100 kg into the box. Mine can also pull a two wheel trailer but I rarely need it.
Yep, you need long legs for the SMGT. That's the reason why my wife rides a Flux C500.
Great trikes! Should get one when I'm too old to ride a bike.
It depends on the drive. Many e-bikes use the Bosch drive train and IME its efficiency when riding without e-support is rather low (this could be better for newer models) so I almost always use the lowest support level. If you want an e-bike with better efficiency look for a motor in the wheel.
pseudoid
Master Contributor
Our locale's elementary school borders on a few mile long boardwalk, adjacent to the beach that is literally these school children's playground.
Lately, I have been noticing that the (mostly) affluent parents have abandoned their AMG G63s and are picking up their kids from the school on e-trikes similar to these:
What a great idea for the moms that are short on daily time for any exercise.
imo; I would force my kids to run alongside the trike, so that they get some exercise as well.
Lately, I have been noticing that the (mostly) affluent parents have abandoned their AMG G63s and are picking up their kids from the school on e-trikes similar to these:
What a great idea for the moms that are short on daily time for any exercise.
imo; I would force my kids to run alongside the trike, so that they get some exercise as well.
Keith_W
Master Contributor
That is interesting, I always thought that motors that drive from the bottom bracket are more efficient than hub motors because they are able to use the gears to provide assistance. I mean, shouldn't you be able to get more torque at the wheels from a mid drive motor? I have ridden a few ebikes and IME mid drive motors are also better balanced and ride smoother over uneven surfaces.
This is correct. I spoke about the efficiency of the drive train if you do not use the motor.
The Bosch motor (at least mine) has one gear inside using (as I have heard) plastic toothed wheels so that one turn of the pedals results in multiple turns of the chain wheel (it is much smaller compared to a standard bike). This gear adds friction when you pedal, especially at lower turn rates. My Load has a continuous variable gear (Nuvinci) with around 83% efficiency only so all in all I need to use the motor when driving faster than 18 km/h.
