Shouldn´t This End the Objective/Subjective Argument for Good?

[Nostradamus]

If you measure the signal at the speaker binding posts when playing music, and then make a change; whether it be a power cord, interconnect or DAC, measure that signal, and compare the two.

If the two signals are exactly the same, it MUST sound the same! Or am I missing something?

I mean every single bit of information that the speakers turn into music is contained in that signal. EVERY bit of information!

 

[sigbergaudio]

If only..

 

[rwtooley]

username checks out

 

[JPA]

Of course, if you look at things objectively. But there's a whole other world out there that doesn't.

 

[Beave]

If you measure the signal at the speaker binding posts when playing music, and then make a change; whether it be a power cord, interconnect or DAC, measure that signal, and compare the two.

If the two signals are exactly the same, it MUST sound the same! Or am I missing something?

I mean every single bit of information that the speakers turn into music is contained in that signal. EVERY bit of information!

But the signals might not be (probably won't be) *EXACTLY* the same. It kind of depends on how you define "exactly the same."

Measure the same system twice (without even changing the power cord or interconnect or DAC), and you still might see tiny measurable changes due to temperature, extremely low level random noise, etc.

And changing the DAC will certainly result in measurable changes.

But will those differences that are barely measurable actually be audible?

Then we're right back to those same old arguments.

 

[DVDdoug]

when playing music,

Yes, but it's not so easy... You have to record it because music changes from moment-to-moment. And you're probably going to have to record digitally and then the digital data won't be identical because you are sampling an analog waveform and you can't sample the exact same points on the waveform every time.

And there is always SOME analog noise which is random so it will be different every time, even with the same amp, although the noise, if you can hear it, will sound the same from the same amp.

Once you have two digital recordings you can subtract and if you get pure silence (which you can get if there's no analog involved) that proves the data is identical and the sound will be identical. But if you don't get pure silence, that can be misleading too... The difference in the sound isn't the same as the sound of the difference. The simplest example is a time-shift of a few milliseconds which doesn't change the sound at all. But when you subtract, you can get a difference file that's "louder" than either file alone, and you'll get comb filtering which you might recognize as related to time-shifting, but it doesn't sound like a time shift.

And if there is a small difference you may hear it clearly when listening to the difference/defect alone but it might be masked (drowned out) when listening to the "original" files.

So, it's easier and more reliable to measure known test signals, or to do controlled blind listening tests. But even then, with measurements or blind listening tests, your hearing may be better than mine....

 

[Salt]

If you measure the signal at the speaker binding posts when playing music, and then make a change; whether it be a power cord, interconnect or DAC, measure that signal, and compare the two.

If the two signals are exactly the same, it MUST sound the same! Or am I missing something?

I mean every single bit of information that the speakers turn into music is contained in that signal. EVERY bit of information!

Hmm,
first: whatever outputs a signal has it's own signature, of course preferable inaudible, no matter if Pre or Amps; look at ASR tested one

second: what you measure at the posts of the real speaker is not only the output what is driving it but additional the reaction of the drivers/speaker itself

 

[RickS]

I just closed a comparable thread and another a month or so ago. They do not tend to add anything beyond Amir’s mega master thread on the topic and end up closed, deleted or merged into it.

Before any member creates another objective vs subjective thread, they better have major creds or show something unique that has not been discussed in Amir’s thread. Thanks for your cooperation!