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Should more emphasis be given to speaker (& driver) size in reviews + what is the ethos of this site?

gnarly

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A 5" driver will produce 110dBSPL at 100Hz and 15mm Xmax, which is within reach of most drivers. 100Hz is also well within the range of most subwoofers setups, hence why would you say it is just a desktop speaker?
Wow.....that's about 3x the xmax i've ever seen from 5" drivers...

Got an example of one? thx
 

tomtoo

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A 5" driver will produce 110dBSPL at 100Hz and 15mm Xmax, which is within reach of most drivers. 100Hz is also well within the range of most subwoofers setups, hence why would you say it is just a desktop speaker?

You gave yourself the answer, you need a sub. Is this 5inch?
 
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Digby

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But it appears that we are in full agreement there.
It is highly unusual, but not necessarily a bad thing ;)....and even though you were working and reading ASR at the same time, you were able to understand what I was saying and we were able to talk to each other, and not past each other. That is quite in a feat on this forum, believe me. The ability to identify the thrust of an argument and address that, rather than countless minutiae/tangents of much lesser importance, is a skill that is sometimes sorely lacking.

I might start putting a limit on what I post each time. 1 paragraph, 100 words, zero ambiguity (lol, good luck with that one) and see if I have better results with people hitting the nail on the head. To be honest, I have my doubts.
 

sq225917

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@ sarum, For any given input level, sensitivity most definitely does affect spl. You surely aren't claiming that a 50db w/m speaker will be as loud as a 100db w/m Loudspeaker when fed 1 watt, are you?

Add more mass to the cone, sensitivity decreases as excursion and acceleration will be reduced. Adding a bigger motor, assuming you don't hit the end stops, max spl is increased. Increase driver area without increasing mass and max spl increases.
 
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sarumbear

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sarumbear

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You gave yourself the answer, you need a sub. Is this 5inch?
Read my post. I was commenting on the desktop speaker, hence the 100Hz reference.
 

tomtoo

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Read my post. I was commenting on the desktop speaker, hence the 100Hz reference.

I call a 5inch a desktopspeaker. Couse alone it is a desktop speaker. Is this so hard to get? If you happy with one in a room without support, than ok. Me it would not make happy. Look what a 5inch does at 3m distance and 40Hz.
 

sarumbear

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Read my post. I was commenting on the desktop speaker, hence the 100Hz reference.
I call a 5inch a desktopspeaker. Couse alone it is a desktop speaker. Is this so hard to get?
It shouldn't be hard to get because I am saying exactly what you say but you are arguing.
 

sarumbear

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Other than the 2 subwoofer and the passive rad,only the 2 scanspeaks qualify in the whole database?
I'm I reading it correctly?
You are reading it correctly. The reason is there is not much demand for such a speaker, not because technically it is not doable. We are discussing limitations of driver sizes. There are multiple other reasons why a driver is selected. Max SPL is just one criteria. I simply show you that there is no physical limit for a small speaker to be loud if it is operated above a certain frequency. You choose 5", I chose 100Hz, and demonstrated that even very loud SPL (110dB) is within the realms of possibility. Naturally that is a find-the-limits exercise.

Then again 110dB is a silly high SPL for a domestic speaker. In real life a 5" driver can generate 96dB with just 3mm cone movement, if used with a subwoofer and crossed at 80Hz. That makes the mentioned desktop speaker perfectly suitable for a full range Hi-Fi set-up.
 
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sarumbear

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Ok, if you agree a 5inch is a desktopspeaker, all is good.
It is by itself. Add a subwoofer than you may have a full-range speaker.
 

tomtoo

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It is by itself. Add a subwoofer than you may have a full-range speaker.

Yes, but then its no more a 5inch. Than its a 5inch supported with a sub. If i say a 5inch, i mean a 5inch and not a 5inch with a 15inch sub.
 

sarumbear

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Yes, but then its no more a 5inch. Than its a 5inch supported with a sub. If i say a 5inch, i mean a 5inch and not a 5inch with a 15inch sub.
Then again it is also a 5" supported with a twitter. :)

Joke aside, my argument is that a desktop speaker with a small woofer is not necessary confined to a desktop. Put it on a pedestal, add a subwoofer and you have a full-blow system. This is why the preference grade has a separate "with subwoofer" value.
 
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Digby

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Yes, but then its no more a 5inch. Than its a 5inch supported with a sub. If i say a 5inch, i mean a 5inch and not a 5inch with a 15inch sub.
Indeed, on the Klippel you only have what is in front of you. To surmise that subs will be used, even if sats+subs is recommended practise, is speculation. This is my point from the beginning. You can only review what is in front of you so...should be speakers with inadequate bass abilities (on their own, f3 at 40hz):

A) Have the review prefaced saying they are incomplete as is and must be supported by subs?
B) Be docked points for not having adequate bass reproduction?

If more preference was given to bass ability, then the loudspeaker rankings would look rather different. This is not to say Amir should grade this way, it is not a case of no bias being possible, there is always a bias and explanation/examination of such bias should be "front and centre".
 
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tomtoo

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Then again it is also a 5" supported with a twitter. :)

Joke aside, my argument is that a desktop speaker with a small woofer is not necessary confined to a desktop. Put it on a pedestal, ass a subwoofer and you have a full-blow system. This is why the preference grade has a separate "with subwoofer" value.

Sure i not say something else. But my talk was about a 5 inch alone.

See if i talk about a car, i talk about a car and not about a car supported by a tank
 

tomtoo

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Indeed, on the Klippel you only have what is in front of you. To surmise that subs will be used, even if sats+subs is recommended practise, is speculation. This is my point from the beginning. You can only review what is in front of you so...should be speakers with inadequate bass abilities (on their own, f3 at 40hz):

A) Have any review prefaced saying they are incomplete as is and must be supported by subs?
B) Be docked points for not having adequate bass reproduction?

If more preference was given to bass ability, then the loudspeaker rankings would like rather different. This is not to say Amir should be grade this way, it is not a case of no bias being possible, there is always a bias and explanation/examination of such the bias should be "front and centre".

But a 5inch eq'ed can go deep, just not loud. So what bass ability? No problem to eq a 5inch to a f3 at 40Hz. Just dont go loud. Its your usage.
 

sarumbear

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Indeed, on the Klippel you only have what is in front of you. To surmise that subs will be used, even if sats+subs is recommended practise, is speculation.
It’s not a speculation. It is calculated. Please learn how the preference score system works.
 

sarumbear

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But a 5inch eq'ed can go deep, just not loud. So what bass ability? No problem to eq a 5inch to a f3 at 40Hz. Just dont go loud. Its your usage.
However you won’t get any louder than around 80dBSPL at 40Hz, with two of them and a bit of help from the room you can not even reach 90dBSPL at bass frequencies. When a bass guitar hits an E2 that driver will struggle.
 
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Digby

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It’s not a speculation. It is calculated. Please learn how the preference score system works.
It is speculation that the user will be employing subs, that is speculation. When we take it as a given, how does it calculate for subs of unknown ability, quantity and integration?

I thought you was of the opinion the preference score didn't work, at least not well enough, didn't you start a thread to that effect?
 
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