Should I exchange my Philharmonic Audio HTs for Genelec 8361a's?

[Esprit]

You will be surprised what GLM can do.

Right

 

[Mort]

This is the Genelec 8361a. Red=Room base Green=REW PEQ Yellow=DIRAC FINAL

This is the Philharmonic Audio. Red=Room base Green=REW PEQ Yellow=DIRAC FINAL

(I combined them and took out REW. Blue and green are HT, Red and Yellow are Genelec.

 

[mj30250]

I'm not a Dirac user and have no direct experience with it, but there are some odd things going on above 1kHz. It's doing a nice job with the bass (it's obviously not going to fully plug the ~60-80Hz null), but it seems to be dialing in a strange midrange peak on the HT towers and broadly scooping out a good deal of treble from the Genelecs before allowing it to elevate. I also wonder what would happen if you swapped the speakers' positions.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to your comparisons once you have everything dialed in.

 

[Mort]

I'm not a Dirac user and have no direct experience with it, but there are some odd things going on above 1kHz. It's doing a nice job with the bass (it's obviously not going to fully plug the ~60-80Hz null), but it seems to be dialing in a strange midrange peak on the HT towers and broadly scooping out a good deal of treble from the Genelecs before allowing it to elevate. I also wonder what would happen if you swapped the speakers' positions.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to your comparisons once you have everything dialed in.

It's especially weird because I cut Diraclive off at 300.

 

[Mort]

These look a little better. 1/12 smoothing

 

[holdingpants01]

is there any aspect of HT that you like better soundwise?

 

[Mort]

is there any aspect of HT that you like better soundwise?

Oh definitely the wide directivity of the AMT ribbon tweeter. That tweeter plus the larger speaker size makes for a much wider soundstage/imaging experience at my 7 foot LP. It absolutely sounds better on some content. I think there is some trade-off in image precision. If the HT is very wide, the Genelec is medium wide and a more controlled and precise presentation.

 

[anotherhobby]

Oh definitely the wide directivity of the AMT ribbon tweeter. That tweeter plus the larger speaker size makes for a much wider soundstage/imaging experience at my 7 foot LP. It absolutely sounds better on some content. I think there is some trade-off in image precision. If the HT is very wide, the Genelec is medium wide and a more controlled and precise presentation.

I've only been listening to my HT's for 5 days (finally finished my theater!), but the wide soundstage presentation is fantastic! They are in a small room, just 14' wide by 12' deep (soundproofed, sealed, and treated), and I feel the HTs soundstage really helps make the room sound bigger than it is.

 

[Mort]

the wide soundstage presentation is fantastic!

To my ear it was best with a very solid center and the wide soundstage which can be tough to get together. Once dialed in (phase, timing, balance etc...) it's like the best of both.

 

[Mort]

I connected GLM and ran my sweeps.

• GLM Room correction and Digital signal processing is pretty easy, on par with Wiim and DiracLive. I don't think it's miles ahead of the competition. It did as good a job with room modes as anything else. ("I'm an Engineer not a miracle worker, Captain!").
• It's MUCH harder to get a steeper curve with GLM as it discourages user configuration and begins with a very flat curve. It took me a while to find how to hack it back into a Harman-like curve. It's still flatter than I like.
• Phase, Balance, Timing seem more competently done - especially with the Grade report which is very detailed and helpful. It suggested I move the monitors forward (6 feet LP) and into the room a few more feet away from the back wall. I 'passed' my report. (no significant issues).
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

[kma100]

@Mort How far away from the wall behind it? Is the listening distance now 6 feet?

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

Oh definitely the wide directivity of the AMT ribbon tweeter. That tweeter plus the larger speaker size makes for a much wider soundstage/imaging experience at my 7 foot LP. It absolutely sounds better on some content. I think there is some trade-off in image precision. If the HT is very wide, the Genelec is medium wide and a more controlled and precise presentation.

It sounds like you really got a lot out of being able to listen. And it sounds pretty close, with a known trade off, in a short trial period. Tough choice.

I know it does not matter for sound, but next to the HT the Genelec looks really, really fugly. Extra fug by contrast. They might bring joy to my ears, but they offend my eyes.

Not that such consideration would stop me from going that way if the sound was more to my desire, that's for sure. But I think I would have to paint them to live with them in a main room situation. They look textured enough that a vinyl wrap is probably not an option.

Tough choice, but a good choice to have in front of you!

 

[Mort]

@Mort How far away from the wall behind it? Is the listening distance now 6 feet?

It's now 1.1 meter from front wall behind the monitors. Basically if you can't get the monitors flush with a wall you need to be at least 1.1m away. (Per Genelec). And yes, an equilateral 6 foot triangle.

 

[kma100]

It's now 1.1 meter from front wall behind the monitors. Basically if you can't get the monitors flush with a wall you need to be at least 1.1m away. (Per Genelec). And yes, an equilateral 6 foot triangle.

Were you able to move it back and forth (cn't tell given you have space constraints). I recall somewhere it was 5cm to 60cm from the wall. Or greater than 1.1m as you have it positioned.

 

[Mort]

Were you able to move it back and forth (cn't tell given you have space constraints). I recall somewhere it was 5cm to 60cm from the wall. Or greater than 1.1m as you have it positioned.

No. Closest they could be symmetrically is about 18 inches from the wall behind them which is not recommended.

They are a pain to move lol. The handle helps but there is definitely a bit of technique to moving them.

 

[holdingpants01]

As far as visual side go, getting them in white would help them to blend in

 

[kma100]

Thanks. Anyway, spend more time listening, and have fun. Subjective impressions are good too

 

[Multicore]

It was a lot of fun anticipating the arrival of the Genelec 8361a's and they do not disappoint. It's only been a day but here are some impressions.

• The smooth, integrated bass really has to be heard.
• Power is ridiculous, it made me laugh out loud and how effortlessly it hit 90spl on bass heavy tracks. Have not hit a limiter. The 90db HT's on a buckeye ncx500 are no slouch but it's just no match.
• It's an engaging, forward sound, maybe? Maybe that's called detail, I don't know.
• I just plugged them in, faced them forward and they instantly 'disappeared' at my 7 feet LP. The HTs take a little more adjustment to get that effect. Neat.

They are really impressive, unlike my lousy photos which give only a vague sense of their odd size in my 11x11 multi-use room. More photos tomorrow in sunlight.

I'm a big fan of the Philharmonic Audio HT Towers. I love PA speakers generally for their design, value and artisanal finishes. I've owned all their speakers at one point or another. The HT Tower is my favorite for its diminutive size, high power, and flat response. I own two pair. The second set is my home theater LCR.

I had never tried the HT towers without a subwoofer because they are designed to be paired with a sub. With some DSP/REW I was rewarded with a nice frequency curve and a strong image that smoothly got to 26hz in-room! That's nice extension from my crazy room modes. I didn't miss the sub except on a few super-bass tracks that go below the 26hz, but vey few. I am interested to see how the Genelecs sound when I adjust for a few room modes and whether I can get the same lower extension. They are both on a miniDSP Flex XLR fed by a Wiim Ultra so I can just switch back and forth nearly instantly.

View attachment 438796

The only question I care about now is what's your playlist for testing?

 

[Mort]

It sounds like you really got a lot out of being able to listen. And it sounds pretty close, with a known trade off, in a short trial period. Tough choice.

I know it does not matter for sound, but next to the HT the Genelec looks really, really fugly. Extra fug by contrast. They might bring joy to my ears, but they offend my eyes.

Not that such consideration would stop me from going that way if the sound was more to my desire, that's for sure. But I think I would have to paint them to live with them in a main room situation. They look textured enough that a vinyl wrap is probably not an option.

Tough choice, but a good choice to have in front of you!

Yours is a very common feeling. In fact, I think @amirm said these would be his choice for building a new system but they would not pass household aesthetic standards.

I also would never put these in my living room. The good news is I have another pair of Philharmonic Audio HT towers in my living room (below.) But these 8361a'a are in my office, where only I see them. I don't hate the look for a private office. The harder part is finding a good stand for them.

Here's my HT's in my living room.

 

[Esprit]

How nice not to have to worry about the aesthetic aspect...
Are the speaker stands listed by Genelec no good?