Should I exchange my Philharmonic Audio HTs for Genelec 8361a's?

[MTZ]

Hello Mort,

I do own a pair of 8361's and the 7360 sub (small room). The sub Integration is very simple using GLM. My room measures 13.71 x 14.72 x 8.23ft. Listening distance is 7.55ft.
They really sound great but are pro tools and very revealing. So bad recordings are really bad and some of my favorite music sounds not that good anymore due to their revealing character. On the other hand there is so much detail in the music but that is what i like.
It really depends on your taste and wishes.

I think you're own setup must sound great to.
I' am not shure if i would change it.
Don't change it just because of others definition of "endgame speakers".We all have different thoughts on endgame and taste in music.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

...despite some nasty square-room modes and a lot of reflecting glass.

You can try tilting the speakers VERY slightly downward, which might help cut down some of the reflections.

I personally would not make such a change, not unless I was dissatisfied with what I had at a level that bothered me when listening. That is particularly true given your room. The room is the biggest issue you have or so I assume, different gear won't change that. So you might get a very small improvement in accuracy in what is played, but the room will likely turn that difference into an irrelevance.

At best you will get a lateral move, at worse you will regret it, that's my prediction.

 

[Audio Science Pal]

demo of the 8351b but they are quite a bit smaller. Maybe it'll give me a sense of the Genelec point source advantages.

@Mort , Have you listened to the Genelecs?

 

[AudioJester]

I have 8361a currently, and owned a Rhythmik 15inch sub in the past.

Obviously if you are listening to material with a lot of content below 30Hz (the 8361a falls off a cliff here), or like a big boost <80Hz, you are really going to miss the subs.

 

[Multicore]

The HT towers are thrilling

You're ready to risk losing this?

What if you find the jennies are competent but not thrilling?

 

[Sam Ash]

You may want to consider the possibility of getting a pair of the 8341 and a 7370 sub along with GLM.

 

[Mort]

Have you listened to the Genelecs?

Not yet. It's going to be a few weeks. The good news is I think I will be able to listen to the 8351b's next to my Philharmonic Audio HTs.

 

[amirm]

The easy part of the answer is that the 8361A is superior to your HT speakers:

The HTs have much less bass extension and slightly brighter signature.

Compared to my Revel Salon 2, they had about 90% of the same bass and I didn't feel the need to add a sub to it.

The one issue is one of height/image size. Unless you elevate the center of 8361A to the same place your current speakers are, you are going to get less height in your imaging.

The 8361As are so perfect in my mind that if the looks were not an issue and I was building a new system, they would be at the top of my list for speakers.

 

[Beave]

@Amir, that appears to be the measurements for the HT Center, not the HT Towers.

HT Towers measurements are here: https://philharmonicaudio.com/pages/measurements/#ht-tower

 

[AudioJester]

The easy part of the answer is that the 8361A is superior to your HT speakers:

The HTs have much less bass extension and slightly brighter signature.

Compared to my Revel Salon 2, they had about 90% of the same bass and I didn't feel the need to add a sub to it.

The one issue is one of height/image size. Unless you elevate the center of 8361A to the same place your current speakers are, you are going to get less height in your imaging.

The 8361As are so perfect in my mind that if the looks were not an issue and I was building a new system, they would be at the top of my list for speakers.

That is quite the endorsement!

Amir, have you had the opportunity to hear the Genelec W371 bass modules in action?

 

[Ilkless]

People underestimate the amount of bass surface area on the 8361. Even accounting for the elliptical drivers giving up some performance vs SOTA round woofers of similar surface area, we are talking a combined Sd (radiating surface area) equivalent to a 10" dedicated woofer. Probably not a Purifi-level 10" but definitely nothing to sniff at.

That's nothing to sniff at. If it were HT vs 8361 in isolation I'd pick the 8361 but if you are to give up the Rythmiks for this change that's a much closer fight and I'd lean towards a well-integrated sub especially since you clearly enjoy the HTs + sub.

 

[amirm]

Amir, have you had the opportunity to hear the Genelec W371 bass modules in action?

Pretty sure they had it at the AES convention. The sound was one of the best I have heard from any system!

 

[Neel]

Your situation is interesting to me. I wish more owners of Genelec speakers would see this thread and share their thoughts.


@Pearljam5000 can you describe the difference?

I have Revel Salon 2s and Genelec 8361a set up in different rooms. Revel room is Dirac and Genelec room is glm.

Between my two setups, genelec room sounds way better. I always prefer it for all my more critical listening.

Hope that helps.

 

[holdingpants01]

Pretty sure they had it at the AES convention. The sound was one of the best I have heard from any system!

I don't want to brag or repeat myself, but after a year of working daily full time on them at my studio I'm still blown away every time I put some music on. They were by far the most expensive audio related purchase I did so far, but the best one at the same time. I upgraded from a pair of 7360A, so I already had a response flat down to 17Hz, but what W371A does actually in the range above the sub (80-300) is just magical. If OP even remotely consider them I would change my reply to go with Genelec, but only for that reason alone (visually NOOOO)

 

[Audio Science Pal]

if the looks were not an issue

First impressions last a long time.

 

[WillBrink]

There is an opportunity to exchange my passive system: Philharmonic Audio HT Towers, a pair of Rythmik E15s and a Hypex Ncx500 amp (~$10k) for a pair of ($10k) Genelec 8361a monitors.

I'm very torn - first world problems. Would you do it? Should I? I can't demo them unfortunately, so I appreciate any clues you can offer.

The HT towers are thrilling in my 12x12 room. I listen from a 6 feet distance to bass-heavy metal, pop, electro at 80-90db. I don't do home theater at this lp but I am still enjoying the ample subwoofers, as well as the wide directivity and generally flat response. I use REW, Diraclive and minidsp to time, balance and get a decent FR slope, despite some nasty square-room modes and a lot of reflecting glass. I'm sure it could be better, I'm a beginner.

I know many consider the 8361A's to be endgame. Any thoughts on how my experience will change if I do it, aside from the aesthetic obvious differences? I'm curious about GLM and whether it will do better in this room with the DSP than I can do. I'm curious about the generally positive characteristics of this monitor - smooth bass, great imaging. Since I listen nearfield-ish (6 feet), I'm thinking the Genelecs might be the better design? I'm concerned about low-bass capability, and I can't afford to add subs, much less Genelec subs, right now.

If I can't demo them? Of course not.

 

[JeremyFife]

Tricky one ... you are at serious risk of Buyers Remorse vs FOMO both of which can colour your opinion and, at worse, spoil your future listening pleasure whatever you choose!

Both tremendous speakers: Genelecs are probably technically superior but you already enjoy (thrilling) the Philharmonics. You know that whatever way you go you will have great sound.

The only thing I can add it that you should be completely happy with your decision: looking forward to a new change, or feeling a sense of relief for deciding not to change. That positive state of mind will help you enjoy whatever you decide to do.
... and don't make any hasty decisions post-change, it takes a long time for out brains to settle into something new (or let an idea go).

Good luck!

 

[Avp1]

There is an opportunity to exchange my passive system: Philharmonic Audio HT Towers, a pair of Rythmik E15s and a Hypex Ncx500 amp (~$10k) for a pair of ($10k) Genelec 8361a monitors.

I'm very torn - first world problems. Would you do it? Should I? I can't demo them unfortunately, so I appreciate any clues you can offer.

The HT towers are thrilling in my 12x12 room. I listen from a 6 feet distance to bass-heavy metal, pop, electro at 80-90db. I don't do home theater at this lp but I am still enjoying the ample subwoofers, as well as the wide directivity and generally flat response. I use REW, Diraclive and minidsp to time, balance and get a decent FR slope, despite some nasty square-room modes and a lot of reflecting glass. I'm sure it could be better, I'm a beginner.

I know many consider the 8361A's to be endgame. Any thoughts on how my experience will change if I do it, aside from the aesthetic obvious differences? I'm curious about GLM and whether it will do better in this room with the DSP than I can do. I'm curious about the generally positive characteristics of this monitor - smooth bass, great imaging. Since I listen nearfield-ish (6 feet), I'm thinking the Genelecs might be the better design? I'm concerned about low-bass capability, and I can't afford to add subs, much less Genelec subs, right now.

Get Genelec, but _keep_ Rythmik. You can add external crossover either digital (miniDSP) or analog (JL Audio).

 

[dfuller]

People underestimate the amount of bass surface area on the 8361. Even accounting for the elliptical drivers giving up some performance vs SOTA round woofers of similar surface area, we are talking a combined Sd (radiating surface area) equivalent to a 10" dedicated woofer. Probably not a Purifi-level 10" but definitely nothing to sniff at.

That's nothing to sniff at. If it were HT vs 8361 in isolation I'd pick the 8361 but if you are to give up the Rythmiks for this change that's a much closer fight and I'd lean towards a well-integrated sub especially since you clearly enjoy the HTs + sub.

I'd say the 8361s are the only speaker from the Ones line that has acceptable SPL handling sans subs - even the 8351s start to compress before the limiters kick in. The 61s went as loud as I could stand without a hint of complaint.

 

[dagfinn]

Hello Mort,

I do own a pair of 8361's and the 7360 sub (small room). The sub Integration is very simple using GLM. My room measures 13.71 x 14.72 x 8.23ft. Listening distance is 7.55ft.
They really sound great but are pro tools and very revealing. So bad recordings are really bad and some of my favorite music sounds not that good anymore due to their revealing character. On the other hand there is so much detail in the music but that is what i like.
It really depends on your taste and wishes.

I think you're own setup must sound great to.
I' am not shure if i would change it.
Don't change it just because of others definition of "endgame speakers".We all have different thoughts on endgame and taste in music.

How would you describe the difference between with and without the 7360a? Some say you don't need subs with 8361a, could you live without one?