Should I exchange my Philharmonic Audio HTs for Genelec 8361a's?

[Mort]

There is an opportunity to exchange my passive system: Philharmonic Audio HT Towers, a pair of Rythmik E15s and a Hypex Ncx500 amp (~$10k) for a pair of ($10k) Genelec 8361a monitors.

I'm very torn - first world problems. Would you do it? Should I? I can't demo them unfortunately, so I appreciate any clues you can offer.

The HT towers are thrilling in my 12x12 room. I listen from a 6 feet distance to bass-heavy metal, pop, electro at 80-90db. I don't do home theater at this lp but I am still enjoying the ample subwoofers, as well as the wide directivity and generally flat response. I use REW, Diraclive and minidsp to time, balance and get a decent FR slope, despite some nasty square-room modes and a lot of reflecting glass. I'm sure it could be better, I'm a beginner.

I know many consider the 8361A's to be endgame. Any thoughts on how my experience will change if I do it, aside from the aesthetic obvious differences? I'm curious about GLM and whether it will do better in this room with the DSP than I can do. I'm curious about the generally positive characteristics of this monitor - smooth bass, great imaging. Since I listen nearfield-ish (6 feet), I'm thinking the Genelecs might be the better design? I'm concerned about low-bass capability, and I can't afford to add subs, much less Genelec subs, right now.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Tough to answer that one. Your speakers are much prettier.

Is there no chance to listen to some 8361a somewhere near you if not the ones you can swap for? Haven't used the GLM myself, but think it might do better. Will you hear that much? I don't know.

If I am pretty happy with what I have I'd say no. When I've made swaps like that it was either a super deal so if I didn't like it I could make a little dough or I had heard what I was getting and knew I wanted it.

 

[DVDdoug]

I say just play around with EQ/DSP if you're feeling "bored" with the sound. And maybe some acoustic treatment. Heavy drapes over the glass will make a "difference" but it won't help with the low-frequency room modes.

Or maybe consider surround sound. I like using the "hall" or "theater" soundfield settings on my AVR for some delayed reverb in the rear and the "feel" of a bigger space. Real surround from concert DVDs (and the 1 or 2 Blu-Ray concerts I have) is even better!

 

[MarkS]

Without auditioning, I would say absolutely not. The tiny little woofers in the 8361s are not going to match your dual 15" subs (plus the Purifi woofers in the Phils) on "bass-heavy metal, pop, electro". And that sort of music is rarely engineered to give pinpoint imaging (of, say, a solo acoustic guitar) that narrow directivity speakers are usually better at, and which would be the only reason to consider switching, IMO.

 

[uwotm8]

There is an opportunity to exchange my passive system: Philharmonic Audio HT Towers, a pair of Rythmik E15s and a Hypex Ncx500 amp (~$10k) for a pair of ($10k) Genelec 8361a monitors

Would be so cool if you manage to get those Genelecs to your place, compare and then post here your impressions.
What makes you think they can even theoretically match your setup, especially on heavy music? Not talking just about linearity.

many consider the 8361A's to be endgame

Maybe for studio monitor enjoyers who purposefully ignore high end audio and focus on linearity only.
I'd prefer your current setup with no hesitation.

 

[thewas]

What makes you think they can even theoretically match your setup, especially on heavy music? Not talking just about linearity.

What do you mean with "heavy music" and on which theoretical disciplines do you think they wouldn't?

I'd prefer your current setup with no hesitation.

What would be the reason(s) that your prefer it?

 

[holdingpants01]

I wouldn't, even if I listen to 8351 every day at my studio I would prefer some more civilian speakers at home, like your current ones. Room correction part of GLM without Genelec subwoofers, not surround or atmos, just straight stereo, is nothing special, it's just an EQ which mostly stops working above 500Hz and basically only cuts the peaks. I would consider 8361/51/41 mostly as a great starting point for W371A upgrade in the future (but the looks of this combo especially with 8361 which is visually too big for W371A is as weird to look at as it gets), or as a part of a big surround or atmos setup

 

[mj30250]

I wouldn't, even if I listen to 8351 every day at my studio I would prefer some more civilian speakers at home, like your current ones. Room correction part of GLM without Genelec subwoofers, not surround or atmos, just straight stereo, is nothing special, it's just an EQ which mostly stops working above 500Hz and basically only cuts the peaks. I would consider 8361/51/41 mostly as a great starting point for W371A upgrade in the future (but the looks of this combo especially with 8361 which is visually too big for W371A is as weird to look at as it gets), or as a part of a big surround or atmos setup

I agree with this. If this was a foundation for a full Genelec ecosystem including W371As, subwoofers, and GLM, that would be a different situation.

Your HT towers are objectively excellent, low distortion, broadly neutral speakers. They aren't quite as ruler flat as the Genelecs of course, but offer somewhat wider dispersion if you find that to be an advantage in your room. I personally wouldn't trade away an appreciable amount of bass performance for point source, which IMO would be the biggest audible "advantage" of the Genelecs. Is an audition before committing out of the question?

 

[kharan]

Since I listen nearfield-ish (6 feet), I'm thinking the Genelecs might be the better design?

Playing devil's advocate for a second since I think people in this thread have it right, the woofer medium crossover is a Linkwitz-Riley 2nd Order Acoustic at 700 Hz, that's a fairly high crossover frequency and the woofer and the mediums are a bit far apart. So you might, emphasis on might, need a little more distance than 6 feet for the integration to be perfect. So there, the Genelecs might be better.

 

[Mort]

Thanks for the responses. I've been able to get a demo of the 8351b but they are quite a bit smaller. Maybe it'll give me a sense of the Genelec point source advantages.

Although I'll never probably be able to afford a dual W371A, eventually I could add non-genelec subwoofers to the 8361A, but it might be a year.

 

[uwotm8]

8351b but they are quite a bit smaller

They can actually cover up to 98% of your nearfield needs while main system will remain (If I get it right) a full-scale solution.
I'm not against Genelec, rather the opposite, and adding them as a second system (instead of exchange) is the best scenario IMO.

 

[Mort]

They can actually cover up to 98% of your nearfield needs while main system will remain (If I get it right) a full-scale solution.
I'm not against Genelec, rather the opposite, and adding them as a second system (instead of exchange) is the best scenario IMO.

Unfortunately that's not the scenario. I can demo the 8251b's but not keep them.

 

[uwotm8]

Unfortunately that's not the scenario. I can demo the 8251b's but not keep them.

Well, at least you will know if it's worth at all (and what's all the rave about). I doubt that bigger model will be another universe in comparison. So anyway it's a very good experience.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Hell yes
Best speakers I've ever heard
But it's a different experience than a tower speaker
Unless you'd add subs in the future

 

[Mort]

might need a little more distance than 6 feet for the integration to be perfect.

Thanks for that suggestion. I may be able to extend another foot to 7 feet. I hadn't considered that might make it integrate better.

 

[Audio Science Pal]

Would you do it? Should I? I can't demo them unfortunately, so I appreciate any clues you can offer.

I use REW, Diraclive and minidsp to time, balance and get a decent FR slope, despite some nasty square-room modes and a lot of reflecting glass.

Can you consider some acoustic treatment of the room before trading off your existing nice speakers?

 

[Mort]

Can you consider some acoustic treatment of the room before trading off your existing nice speakers?

No, room is set. Aside from a bad null at 70hz, I didn't think the room was an issue before.

 

[Audio Science Pal]

Your situation is interesting to me. I wish more owners of Genelec speakers would see this thread and share their thoughts.

it's a different experience than a tower speaker

@Pearljam5000 can you describe the difference?

 

[Pearljam5000]

Your situation is interesting to me. I wish more owners of Genelec speakers would see this thread and share their thoughts.


@Pearljam5000 can you describe the difference?

It's hard to describe
But the sound is more "focused" I guess
It may sound a bit smaller than big floor standers but the clarity, detail and everything else makes up for it
I guess that if you add subs they would sound much closer to a floor stander.

 

[MarkS]

It may sound a bit smaller than big floor standers but the clarity, detail and everything else makes up for it

IMO, whether the trade-off is worth it or not is highly dependent on personal taste, the type of music one is listening to, and what sort of experience one expects from that listening.