Should I buy one?

[May Kasahara]

After all the great threads about DACs and the "inaudible" differences, I now have a question. And this time, not "Which DAC should I buy?" but "If I buy an integrated amplifier with an internal DAC, should I buy an additional DAC at all?" I know, SINAD and all the other great measurements, but if I end up not hearing it, it's just a matter of peace of mind, isn't it?

 

[solderdude]

Well that would kind of depend on what you already have, what you think you may need or plan to buy.

Yes, piece of mind is an important factor and ultimately what makes someone buy something.
When an AVR already has a DAC and that offers the connectivity (USB, or whatever other) and functionality you want then I would not bother buying an extra box that offers no advantages other than perhaps some 'better' numbers you can't hear anyway.

However, if you don't feel comfortable with the onboard DAC and an external one gives you more piece of mind then ... buy one.

 

[BostonJack]

You might consider it as an experiment. I bought a Topping D10 a few years ago and haven't felt the need to upgrade, based on specs. I'm currently using it
as my desktop for work and pleasure, coupled with an Atom headphone amplifier.

A desktop system to improve upon what comes out of the existing soundcard might be an alternative use for a standalone DAC. Don't know what your life/work style is, but I can now Zoom and listen to music with really good (though not SOTA) quality.

I've spent $100 on a disappointing restaurant meal, so a quality, but low priced, DAC is sort of an equivalent entertainment expense.

 

[sergeauckland]

If my experience is anything to go by, I haven't bought an external DAC, I use whatever's built into the player, whether CD, streamer or computer. The measurements are all such that there would be no audible improvement with an external DAC, so why have one? Just another expense and another box to find a home for.

One benefit I find in being totally measurements driven is that I find it very easy to persuade myself it's not worth buying something I wouldn't hear any improvement from.

S

 

[May Kasahara]

I think I will buy new. I'm looking for an amp in the price range up to about max $600-800. The usual suspects (Rotel, Yamaha, etc) are all with integrated Dac in that price range.

I'm going to refer to a reply by Doodski from the current thread "DAC blind tests? EVER?"
"The issue in that is that any decent DAC uncolored from maybe $100 and up sounds the same as any other decent uncolored DAC."

Once I use this statement, the question now remains whether I will find such a DAC in an integrated amp or whether it is worth spending the extra $100.

 

[Barryfromholland]

I hear a subtle but clear difference between the bluesound node 130i as a pre-amp and via my topping d90se Dac as a pre-amp.

for me worth the price of the topping.

but the difference can also be the pre amp circuit, and or the dac, I don’t know

 

[JSmith]

If I buy an integrated amplifier with an internal DAC, should I buy an additional DAC at all?"

There's not much point... you'll be limited by the noise and distortion levels of the amp. So you may have a DAC with 115 sinad, but an integrated with digital inputs and processing probably won't get much past 85 at best. It's better to use an external DAC with a well measuring power amp. If you're going with an integrated with digital inputs, just use the onboard DAC.


JSmith

 

[Graham849]

Depends on your use case.

I have an AO200 amp that only has 48khz sample rate thus necessitating resampling my 44.1 flac collection.

However paired with a DO100 DAC it allows me to direct play thru jriver.

Good luck in your choice and enjoy the music!

 

[sergeauckland]

Depends on your use case.

I have an AO200 amp that only has 48khz sample rate thus necessitating resampling my 44.1 flac collection.

However paired with a DO100 DAC it allows me to direct play thru jriver.

Good luck in your choice and enjoy the music!

Unless the AO200 can only support an input of 48k sample rate, (in which case, I take your point), is there any audible benefit to avoiding resampling? Sample Rate Converters have been transparent for many years, so I would expect one built-in to the AO200 to be also.

S.

 

[Graham849]

Unless the AO200 can only support an input of 48k sample rate, (in which case, I take your point), is there any audible benefit to avoiding resampling? Sample Rate Converters have been transparent for many years, so I would expect one built-in to the AO200 to be also.

S.

My understanding is that the Bluetooth chip is also used as the DAC in the AO200, a no extra cost ”bonus” - the USB input also works as an mp3 player that just plays thru the songs on a USB stick with no puase control etc.

Resampling is probably inaudible but having the extra controls that the DO100 offers - filters and optical input / better Bluetooth makes it a no-brainer for me.

 

[May Kasahara]

I really just don't get it. Let's leave the different features aside.
I'm deliberately generalizing now: Asr thinks that well implemented dacs sound the same (not measuring, mind you). But still standalone dacs are bought for many hundreds of $ (ex: Topping d90se) and new ones are added weekly. It's a crazy world.

So if I understand it correctly, I can use the integrated DACs without worrying, even if I know they measure worse but sound the same. Is that correct?

 

[Graham849]

Yes.

Speakers are most important

 

[SIY]

I hear a subtle but clear difference between the bluesound node 130i as a pre-amp and via my topping d90se Dac as a pre-amp.

for me worth the price of the topping.

but the difference can also be the pre amp circuit, and or the dac, I don’t know

Or it could be illusory. And honestly, that's the most likely scenario.