Shootout between JBL M2 and Revel Salon 2

[amirm]

A blind listening test was organized and reported on AVS Forum. It ran this weekend and here are the results:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...iewed-speakers-ever-made-12.html#post54628832

There are the details of tracks on the next page.

 

[oivavoi]

Interesting. Goes against my expectations. The interesting question then becomes: why were the Salons preferred?

 

[Purité Audio]

The salons aren't bad speakers heard some just a week or two ago at a customers house, they are uncommon in the U.K. Due possibly to the inept UK distribution,
Keith

 

[oivavoi]

Yes those terrible passive speakers ahhhhhhhh...... lies all must be lies .

How were the salons being driven or more with what?

My guess is that it could be about reflections - directional horn vs cone n dome. More reflections from the Salons, I assume?

 

[tr1ple6]

My guess is that it could be about reflections - directional horn vs cone n dome. More reflections from the Salons, I assume?

I thought the wave guide in the M2 was meant to provide a wide dispersion so I don't think the reflections explain the preference.

 

[amirm]

This is an informal listening test so the results only go so far.

Even though we have the M2s at work, I have not done any side by side comparisons to the Salon 2.

The comparison that I have heard is the JBL 4367 to Salon 2. There, the 4367 is more dynamic but also has "more in your face" mid to high frequencies. Depending on music you play, one or the other would win.

One key thing: the M2 is a fully programmable speaker in that it comes as active speakers with full UI to change its response to anything you want. I don't know what was used in this listening test but the aggressiveness that I am talking about above can be reduced with the built-in EQ.

 

[A.wayne]

Results are what i would have expected , the Revels is the better of the two , subjectively and has better speaker topology ...

Quasi horns dont work, not in the 70's when i had my first and apparently not now with all the electronic do dahs ...


Regards

 

[dallasjustice]

I agree. It is easy to create a more aggressive sound by simply moving the tilt of the frequency response up a little. This is true for any speaker. So the question I have is what was the preset high frequency roll off on the M2?It is true that the salon 2 has a nice high frequency downward tilt above 1khz. I'm sure it was designed that way. But the user has to set the M2's HF roll off. I believe the M2 also has a "flat" setting. If the M2 was set that way, it would explain some of the comments.

Of course, I take some of the comments with a grain of salt. The same guy who said the M2 was aggressive also said it wasn't as dynamic sounding as the revel.There wasn't a lot of loud rock music on that list; maybe ramstein is the only track.

One key thing: the M2 is a fully programmable speaker in that it comes as active speakers with full UI to change its response to anything you want. I don't know what was used in this listening test but the aggressiveness that I am talking about above can be reduced with the built-in EQ.

 

[amirm]

Of course, I take some of the comments with a grain of salt. The same guy who said the M2 was aggressive also said it wasn't as dynamic sounding as the revel.

I agree. The M2's DNA is to be dynamic and it is. We have it in our theater at work and it peels the skin of your face with no distortion!

 

[Thomas savage]

I agree. The M2's DNA is to be dynamic and it is. We have it in our theater at work and it peels the skin of your face with no distortion!

Is that why you look so ..., youthful my lord ?

 

[amirm]

Is that why you look so ..., youthful my lord ?

That's right. Our shop doubles as a beauty salon for men:

 

[Thomas savage]

That's right. Our shop doubles as a beauty salon for men:

Ok mate, I think Vancouver is the place for you buddy

 

[dallasjustice]

Oh amir next time you go to one of those polite audiophile meetings you need to play this ..,

Anytime you find yourself in a pointless back and forth argument , yep this is the song. Post and sign out.

Isn't this Sean Olive partying with the youngsters?

 

[amirm]

You are not too far from truth Thomas. This is the blu-ray we use to show off JBL M2 speakers. It is stunning in person:

If you have not seen it, it is the definition of insanity (for both snowboarding and flying a helicopter)

 

[amirm]

And this is the killer music track (deadmau5)

 

[NorthSky]

It's a good thread @ AVSForum, with few audio scientists participating, including Dr. Floyd E. Toole

Oops, sorry, wrong video (correction):

 

[NorthSky]

This is the blu-ray we use to show off JBL M2 speakers. It is stunning in person:

If you have not seen it, it is the definition of insanity (for both snowboarding and flying a helicopter)

This Blu-ray in 3D is even better:

3D - Music check to test your speakers' medley:

And this is the killer music track (deadmau5)

Some movements to go with it:

 

[SPFC]

You are not too far from truth Thomas. This is the blu-ray we use to show off JBL M2 speakers. It is stunning in person:

If you have not seen it, it is the definition of insanity (for both snowboarding and flying a helicopter)

Yes, this is an amazing movie. I actually have it in 3D an it looks amazing. Super realistic.

 

[hvbias]

I've never seen "dynamic" to mean something other than dynamic range when it comes to audio. @amirm care to weigh in?

I wouldn't nitpick this on a subjectivist forum, but since this is an objective science based forum I thought it should be clear when we're using terms that have concrete definitions. BTW I have no issue with the test you propose, I do think the test would be more telling if DnB and other such electronic music did have true high level dynamic range where the driving bass track was at a louder level than the rest of the music since that would not only test the "ability to transfer energy" but also the capability of the speaker's dynamics and also test the speaker/amplifier interaction since there is a lot of power in the bass and to see if the amplifier was clipping at any point.

==========================

Now this part not addressed at you specifically Thomas Savage. I know many subjectivists take issue with the algorithm that the DR Loudness database uses and some of them are legit complaints, most of them are just hand waving away results they don't like.

Another app that will let you visualize dynamic range and crest factor is MasVis, which is free.

 

[hvbias]

IDK this is the first definition I could find for dynamics.

: variation and contrast in force or intensity (as in music). Sounds awful close to dynamic range with the mention of variation or contrast. That variation and contrast in force or intensity will be seen with a steady beat of loud tympani drum whacks playing louder than the rest of the ensemble. Now if that the tympani drum was playing at the same volume as the string section then yes it still has the force or intensity part but since there is no variation or contrast it's not dynamic. You'll be able to see your woofers moving in both instances.

That was my whole point that if the electronic music (Skrillex) really did have the bass track at a louder volume from the rest of the music it would be truly, objectively more dynamic. When I see an average of DR4 or 5 then it pretty much means that driving bass track is at the same volume as the rest of the music.