Shenzhen/SMSL RAW-HA1 Amplifier Review

[TonyJZX]

i wonder why they arent slapping in pffb circuitry?

 

[amirm]

i wonder why they arent slapping in pffb circuitry?

I don't know if the Infineon amp IC they are using supports pffb. Other amps that have it are using TI silicon.

 

[Adeptuz]

So... To buy or not no buy? Is there a better option at this price? One week ago i sold loxjie a30 and install terrible ZK-1002T) I need new amplifier)

 

[JakeK]

I'm voting 'fine'. This is a possible candidate for a major upgrade I'm planning for the system in my gym. 100wpc into 4 ohm, USB in, LDAC, line in, HDMI in, sub out and all in a small package are all features I would like. I would like a little better fidelity and the ability to use a high pass on the main speakers when sub out is in use though.

 

[JakeK]

If you still have the unit, would you mind testing it for occasional and regular low-level popping when used via USB without the XMOS driver (that plagues some SMSL products and may indicate incomplete UAC2 compliance) as seen in my video?

Some notes:

• Only affects USB input (on Windows, Linux, Mac)
• After powering on, two pops are heard. Starting playback results in two more pops and a loss of the start of that track. Stopping and waiting a few seconds results in two pops, after which there will be two more pops upon playback
• The 'fix' exists for Windows only, by installing the XMOS driver, editing the XML config file to expose more Control Panel tabs, then changing the Streaming option from 'On when Needed' to 'Always On'
• No Mac or Linux XMOS driver & Control Panel, hence no such fix for those OSes
• This setting is not stored inside the unit
• Audio captured with a MOTU UltraLite mk5. The only processing performed is normalisation.

This unit is something I would like to use via USB with a pi based picoreplayer linux based streamer so this seems like it would be a deal breaker for me. If that unfixable on linux USB popping is real then it's very disappointing in what could be a promising product. For me I would have to use some sort of HAT with my Pi based streamer to avoid using USB which takes away some of the advantage of having DAC and Amp in one box.

What kind of filter selection does the SW output provide? I couldn't find anything on the website but it might be a decent alternative for an AVR... at least if it had some kind of built-in PEQ functionality.

Please, consider implementing a high-pass filter for the subwoofer out for future models.

Yes. Good question. If it has no high pass filter on the main speakers when the sub out is used, surely the sub out is pointless as that would be a deal breaker if you wanted to actually use a sub or subs with this.

Thanks! Are you familiar with the SVS

Prime Wireless Pro SoundBase?​

I'm not sure why SVS haven't sent one of those to Amir for testing. Maybe because they know it won't measure that well, IDK. We can only guess but this does make the Soundbase an unknown quantity in terms of quality.

Topping MX5 might be an option. It has a powerful headphone amp.

Has the MX5 been tested here? There may be a reason why they haven't sent one to Amir for testing. Aside for that the MX5 may be better in some ways. The MX5 lacks LDAC but maybe this RAW-HA1 lacks the fidelity for LDAC to be worthwhile anyway? The MX5 lacks sub out but maybe sub out is pointless without a high pass filter.

Wiim amp pro is demonstrably more capable but it has extra cost and streaming features that I don't need in an amp.

 

[shuppatsu]

Hard for me to vote “great” without knowing how endemic this popping issue is.

I think people are too hard on the headphone out. It actually seems good for something like the HD600. Maybe the noise is too high for sensitive IEMs (due to digital volume control?).

Power-wise, it seems fine, delivering more than the L30 II in medium gain. I listen to my HD6XX with -9.3 preamp gain. There are a handful of tracks that could be listened to with more gain than medium gain provides, but aside from early fits of neophyte enthusiasm, the number of times I switch to high gain approaches zero.

Is it disappointing? A bit. Is it a deal breaker, if the device otherwise checks all the boxes? Not in my book.

 

[Roland68]

It seems to be just a redesigned and slightly slimmed down AO300.
Same ICs, power supply a little simpler and cheaper, significantly longer route for the HP connection, past the power supply, display connection/control and power supply/connection.
But it is also cheaper than the AO300.
It would be interesting to see if there is a metrological difference to the AO300.

The structure of the 3rd device, Loxjie A40, seems to me to be more well thought out/cleaner, a little more complex, better constructed power supply for digital and small signal range, Bluetooth and HDMI outsourced to their own circuit board instead of squeezed in between.
From my point of view, this is also an interesting candidate for a test.

 

[Fidji]

Nicely optimized for 5W 1kHz Test Tone.

 

[Roland68]

i wonder why they arent slapping in pffb circuitry?

Thanks @amirm for the comprehensive review as usual. Seems like a jack of all trades and master of none - lack of PFFB and the poor headphone output sort of make it a poor product in 2024 though reasonable for the price I guess.

But considering Fosi Audio, Aiyima and WiiM now have PFFB output and even that like Fosi Audio DS2 headphone amplifier has a much more powerful headphone. Then this issue with the usb input highlighted in the thread makes me think you can assemble a similar featured setup with better measurements all around for about the same price with a few components bundled together.

I see there is a Subwoofer output? Any idea if they have a HPF on the speaker outputs if an active subwoofer is connected?

The UI and feature set are impressive. That said, the amp section is not significantly better at 8 ohms than the now-elderly and still dirt-cheap Aiyima A07, and it has similar load dependence. In 2024, one would think PFFB -- not to mention a respectably beefy headphone output -- would be mandatory for such products, but what do I know?....

A look at the data sheet would have prevented this type of post.
PFFB is an add-on from Ti for TPA325x ICs.

Infineon has installed feedback for the MA5332MS as standard (i.e. not as an add-on) so that the signal is deliberately fed back at the output and before the output filter.
The reasons for this are, among other things, the functionality and possibilities of the MA5332MS.
Different manufacturer, different functionality, different design decisions.

 

[gpunique]

It seems to be just a redesigned and slightly slimmed down AO300.
Same ICs, power supply a little simpler and cheaper, significantly longer route for the HP connection, past the power supply, display connection/control and power supply/connection.
But it is also cheaper than the AO300.
It would be interesting to see if there is a metrological difference to the AO300.

The structure of the 3rd device, Loxjie A40, seems to me to be more well thought out/cleaner, a little more complex, better constructed power supply for digital and small signal range, Bluetooth and HDMI outsourced to their own circuit board instead of squeezed in between.
From my point of view, this is also an interesting candidate for a test.

Isn't the loxjie basically the same as this smsl? Having the same dac chip which doubles as the headphone amp should mean the same mediocre headphone amp performance too, right?

 

[JeremyFife]

Pretty nice for the money, especially if you wanted to hook up a TV and have a simple bedroom/student system. No fuss, perfectly decent.

 

[pablolie]

What I like:
* all in one
* very good price/performance
* no phono in
* sub out
* compact form factor

What I don't:
* performance (albeit good for the price)

I wish there were more highly-integrated products with these basic features.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

A look at the data sheet would have prevented this type of post.
PFFB is an add-on from Ti for TPA325x ICs.

Infineon has installed feedback for the MA5332MS as standard (i.e. not as an add-on) so that the signal is deliberately fed back at the output and before the output filter.
The reasons for this are, among other things, the functionality and possibilities of the MA5332MS.
Different manufacturer, different functionality, different design decisions.

If it's on-chip negative feedback prior to output filtering, it isn't PFFB -- it might reduce distortion, but it won't remedy impedance dependency. There are some things that can't be learned from data sheets -- that's why Amir's FR graphs are the appropriate data source here.

 

[NielsMayer]

what would happen if PFFB actually had the feedback go all the way to the speaker terminals??

 

[Bruce Morgen]

what would happen if PFFB actually had the feedback go all the way to the speaker terminals??

That's where PFFB is connected AFAIK -- once you're "post filter" (the "PF" in "PFFB") you're at the speaker terminals in a typical chip-based Class D circuit.

 

[NielsMayer]

That's where PFFB is connected AFAIK -- once you're "post filter" (the "PF" in "PFFB") you're at the speaker terminals in a typical chip-based Class D circuit.

No, I meant at the speaker terminals of the speaker, not the amplifier.

It has already been discussed here, and this is what I was talking about: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ote-sensing-speaker-cable-compensation.27683/

Hypex NC500 has a remote sensing input to do just that:

Purifi 1ET400A / Hypex NC500 Input Buffer

This Purifi/Hypex input buffer provides a fully differential output. It is an excellent upgrade on the Purifi EVAL1 and features extremely low distortion.

neurochrome.com

In addition, the following options are provided for advanced users:
... A two-pin connector footprint provides access to the remote sensing pins of the Purifi 1ET400A / Hypex NC500.
Please refer to the Purifi 1ET400A and Hypex NC500 data sheets for further information on how to use these two advanced features.

Intuitively, I would imagine interference/common-mode-noise etc could be problematic in a normal passive loudspeaker setup with a potentially long sense-return wire.
But such a feature could better be used in an active speaker to compensate for the intrinsic impedance and inductance of internal wiring from amplifier to speaker terminal.

 

[NielsMayer]

Intuitively, I would imagine interference/common-mode-noise etc could be problematic in a normal passive loudspeaker setup with a potentially long sense-return wire.
But such a feature could better be used in an active speaker to compensate for the intrinsic impedance and inductance of internal wiring from amplifier to speaker terminal.

Also someone with extra time & patience on their hands tell me the length of speaker/return wire where the speed-of-light delay would cause problems (stability/ringing/etc) with the op-amp (or other class-D feedback control circuitry) implementing the "servo" that senses the voltage&current remotely at the speaker terminal.

I bet those kind of problems are behind the warning from Hypex not to use remote sense at the speakers:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-speaker-cable-compensation.27683/post-957862

Exactly. FBH and FBC must be connected to OUTH and OUTC not more than a few cm away from the amplifier.

 

[Ajax]

What I like:
* all in one
* very good price/performance
* no phono in
* sub out
* compact form factor

What I don't:
* performance (albeit good for the price)

I wish there were more highly-integrated products with these basic features.

IMO the membership got it about right, the Wiim AMP Pro is a far better alternative.

	SMSL HA1	WiiM AMP PRO
POOR	5	2
NOT TERRIBLE	36	7
FINE	55	36
GREAT	4	55
PRICE	$212	$379

I appreciate the extra $160, however, when compared to the insane prices paid for "magazine approved" HiFi gear it is an insignifcant amount of money to get something close to SOTA. The WiiM is near perfect for a second system, especially with such a useful App. The headphone amp on the SMSL is not powerful enough to be considered a valued feature.

Add a pair of Elac DBR62 speakers to the WiiM Amp Pro and you will enjoy seriously good sound for less than$1k.

WiiM Amp Pro Streaming Stereo Amplifier Review​

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Amp Pro networked streaming stereo class D amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $379. The package is minimalistic in nature and matches the "non-pro" version of the amplifier. The volume indicator is that set of LEDs...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review​

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 bookshelf speaker. It was kindly purchased new and drop shipped to me for testing. The DBR-62 costs US $600 a pair from multiple sources/dealers. The DBR-62 comes in black and walnut finish or the distressed Oak and...

www.audiosciencereview.com

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[erik42788088]

I need some advice.

I have an SMSL AO300 with a faulty screen and Amazon will refund me the cost of 260 euros.

If on a hardware level it is identical to this SMSL RAW-HA1 I think it has the same performance, am I wrong? (especially for power).

In this case, should I get the Wiim Amp (not the Pro) for 369 euros?
Honestly, I was worried about the difference in power declared 60watt vs 85watt but from the results they both settle at 60watt.
If for 100 euros I have an integrated streamer I'm very happy, considering that I wanted to buy a Wiim mini.

 

[alexanderino]

I assume it is audible over headphone as well?

My first post in this thread is potentially misleading: it was to showcase the glitches over USB that seem to plague many DACs -- not necessarily the RAW-HA1, which I do not own.

I interpreted your question as to whether the popping could be heard when wearing headphones. The glitches were present in the SMSL C100 and SU-1 (others have documented the same problem with others' USB DACs), neither of which have a headphone output.

Apologies for the confusion.