My Macbook also has a displayport connection. I tested that connection and it also exhibits the low-pass behavior. When I get back from vacation, I will figure out if the TVs HDMI inputs also have this fault.
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Share your in-room measurements?
- Thread starter thefsb
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Thanks for the advice. I've tried that, but it didn't solve the problem. I will try adjusting subwoofer distances in MUltEQ-X and see if that helps, but I'm wondering how you do it when you have 2 subs. Do you increase or decrease distances by the same interval or you have to do it proportionally and change the distance by the same percentage?
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Got around to setup Dirac on my new place.
Equipment is:
MiniDSP Flex
March Purifi Amp
March Sointuva Speakers
SVS sb-1000 pro
Quite happy (besides those nulls around 60 and 75Hz, which only a second sub would fix) with the light touch that Dirac applied, but I am also a newbie on this sort of stuff, what is your opinion?
Equipment is:
MiniDSP Flex
March Purifi Amp
March Sointuva Speakers
SVS sb-1000 pro
Quite happy (besides those nulls around 60 and 75Hz, which only a second sub would fix) with the light touch that Dirac applied, but I am also a newbie on this sort of stuff, what is your opinion?
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That looks like it would sound very good.
Does it perhaps sound a little v-shaped? It looks like your target curve dials out of lot of the treble roll off that is happening in your room. I would try to let the highs roll off more and dial back the bass boost, but I prefer a more mids-emphasized presentation. No wrong answers, that setup should be sounding great.
According to the research by Toole and what this site is based on, your loudspeakers don’t need any adjustments over the range of about 400-500 Hz as they already measure great, other than perhaps a broadband adjustment to overall response to suit your own preference of the overall balance.
I think you should adjust the positioning of your loudspeakers before you use EQ, as it looks like you have some loss of energy in the range of 100 Hz to 200 Hz.
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mikewxyz
Member
I have posted on this thread a while back but I have new 3-way speakers this year so thought I would post again. The new speakers have dual 7" mid-woofers per enclosure which puts a lot more energy into the room compared to my old bookshelf units. I have modest room treatment and prefer not to EQ so speaker position is the only "knob" to turn. Subsequently, it's pretty hard to make these graphs look pretty.
Three graphs attached. One graph is at the normal listening position with a slight toe-in. The other two are measured with the speaker pulled out from the wall and the Umik closer and starting on-axis.
I like the sound.
Three graphs attached. One graph is at the normal listening position with a slight toe-in. The other two are measured with the speaker pulled out from the wall and the Umik closer and starting on-axis.
I like the sound.
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Andysu
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show the room and the mic being used in the room in wide angle so can see whole room
mikewxyz
Member
Currently, the Christmas tree is in the room, so no new photos. Attached are two older photos. The room is large (19.5' x 22.5') but not rectangular with a vaulted ceiling. The floor plan is open with adjacent rooms.
The mic is positioned behind and in the middle of the sofa when taking measurements for my listening position (not shown). The distance from listening position to the tweeter is 117".
I move the speakers around to optimize for smooth frequency and low distortion.
The mic is positioned behind and in the middle of the sofa when taking measurements for my listening position (not shown). The distance from listening position to the tweeter is 117".
I move the speakers around to optimize for smooth frequency and low distortion.
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Andysu
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windows , if you open them it will should improve infersonic below 20Hz by a few extra dB
few some of the ceiling area will have snags with sound frequencies not much can be done about that , i guess its wooden stud behind plasterboard and most of walls are plasterboard
you got one thing there , wooden floor for matrix below surround , in floor below surround enhance that , substandard atmos to something better and get a proper cheap Dolby Stereo SDU4 coupled with cheap onkyo avr that has multi stereo mode and can make Dolby Stereo mono matrix surround with multi same coaxial speakers , in ceiling in a multi array otherwise it doesn't work , and same along side walls back wall and in the floor with metal grills and then you listen to , the empire strikes back with a proper surround that will have you cocooned to your home you never want to go outside to a cinema again
its all easy and so so cheap to do
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ExPerfectionist
Active Member
I unfortunately have this issue in my room as well, lower response in 100-200Hz range, with my Ascend Sierra-LX, which are definitely not lacking in bass. Back of speakers are about 24" from the front wall. 9 feet from MLP and about 7.5 feet or so apart. I can't really move them around beyond where everything is, short of shifting the entire room setup 90 degrees to the wall, which would put the TV in front of the fireplace. Audyssey + subwoofer overlap has helped bring this back up.
Speakers are on shorter wall of rectangular room (about 2800^3 ft) and front left is open to kitchen/hallway. Couch is mid-way into room, but not exactly half way. Hardwood floor, with rug, bookshelves, furniture, a few panels on the sides (and two behind the TV/center channel). RTA is about 300ms for most of the spectrum. I was using thicker GIK Acoustics panels behind the speakers, but this round of measuring I found that removing them fixed a few of the bass region nulls so I kept them out.
I am going to re-measure over the break, but here are a few of the graphs from when I re-did my calibration after getting a new subwoofer a few weeks ago (Monolith THX 16 - previous sub was Rythmik F12SE) and incorporating a miniDSP to do the sub's EQ instead of Audyssey. I use Audyssey Dynamic EQ but have the EQ for the sub dropped to 20Hz so it doesn't do anything extra, and limited to 500Hz~ range for the speakers as well. Did a lot of experimenting with various XO points and sub-distance to get the smoothest transition and least/smallest nulls in the combined response.
*After taking these final measurements for that night, I adjusted some of the channel levels, and also added a filter to the miniDSP to cut the sub's bass by 3~ dB at 18Hz. But I liked that the sub goes up by about 10dB from 100Hz to 30Hz with DEQ on (and 20 differential between offset setting and volume setting (eg., offset=0 and -20 vol, offset=15 and -35 vol).
I'm going to re-measure over the holiday break and make some fine tune adjustments now that I have lived with it for a few weeks. Looking forward to watching some movies now with my bigger sub. But sharing a few of the measurements from that night.
First chart is L+R together running Large, plus subwoofer in green.
Second chart is L+R+Sub with miniDSP running for the sub, DEQ off (purple), DEQ on and 20diff between offset and vol (green), and moving mic RTA measurement (at the bottom in blue). Doesn't reflect additional -3dB cut at 18Hz I added, or other level adjustments I made after taking down all the measurement equipment (hence why I want to re-measure this week).
Third is L, R, and L+R combined, pre-Audyssey
(Not shown, but I did try moving speakers 5" closer to the front wall to see if it brought up any of the 100-200Hz range or made any other significant differences, but difference was negligible)
Fourth is sub distance setting tests. This is L+R+Sub, with miniDSP EQ settings already set. Highlighted green line is the distance setting I went with (12' -- Audyssey initially set to 18) with a few miniDSP adjustments made based on speaker+sub response, and I think +3dB on the AVR level setting for the sub. The # before "Dec 13" is the distance setting in the receiver. Bottom blue line is peak with Moving Mic measurement.
*Side note -- while I was watching videos and researching how to best do miniDSP and phase/distance alignment in prep to do all of this, I found out that with Denon and Marantz receivers, you can access the Settings from a web browser. Chrome didn't work for me, but Safari does, on my Mac. You enter 192.168.0.101 (default), unless another device has taken that number (you can check the current IP address in the network settings section). This lets you access a web GUI interface to manually adjust all of the settings really easily. Great for making changes like sub distance or channel levels on the fly.
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I have solved the last bit of lost energy in that frequency area by letting my subwoofers overlap the main speakers just enough to fill out that area. This has of course led to some pumps of extra energy in lower parts of the response, but it's way easier to reduce those peaks as that will not add any distortion in comparison to trying to add the lost energy with EQ adjustments.
I find this approach works great solving this common problem this way, as I rather have a little bit too much bass in some parts of the room that are usually not where I listen to music, instead of having a loss of energy at the main listening position as this commonly problematic frequency area often contains the “body” and “meat” of most musical instruments.
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ExPerfectionist
Active Member
Here's my re-do, Round 2 a few weeks after getting my Monolith THX 16, paired with Ascend Sierra-LX. I still need to do some listening tests, but I will probably be able to use just Audyssey on, no DEQ for music (DEQ low level on for movies/TV and games).
I played around with miniDSP filters, XO setting, levels, etc to tone down the bass from before
Psych Smoothing
Top to bottom
Brown > DEQ On, volume vs offset = -20
Green > DEQ On, volume vs offset = -5
Brown > Audyssey Off
Orange (bold) > Audyssey On, DEQ Off
Same but with 1/6 smoothing:
Equipment:
Denon x3700h
Ascend Sierra - L/C/R
Monolith THX 16 + miniDSP
Ascend 170SE - (side) surrounds
SVS Prime Elevation - back surround and Atmos top middle
I played around with miniDSP filters, XO setting, levels, etc to tone down the bass from before
Psych Smoothing
Top to bottom
Brown > DEQ On, volume vs offset = -20
Green > DEQ On, volume vs offset = -5
Brown > Audyssey Off
Orange (bold) > Audyssey On, DEQ Off
Same but with 1/6 smoothing:
Equipment:
Denon x3700h
Ascend Sierra - L/C/R
Monolith THX 16 + miniDSP
Ascend 170SE - (side) surrounds
SVS Prime Elevation - back surround and Atmos top middle
I’m not gonna say I know how your speakers sound like in your room, but in that frequency area between 100 Hz to 400 Hz is where most instruments have their “body”, and if I’m allowed to guess I would say it may sound a little bit thin in that area. But it is a very sensitive area as too much energy would make it “muddy”, it’s a fine balance there.
You say you can’t really move the loudspeakers where they are now, is that because of esthetical or impractical reasons? But maybe you could at least try to see what will happen to that frequency area by making a few measurements with the speakers at different distances to the wall, and also what a change of listening position would do if you change the measuring microphone position. Maybe you will find a combination of both changing the position of the speakers and the listening position that will fill up that broad loss in energy, which may also work in practice for you.
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ExPerfectionist
Active Member
Thanks for the input! I did try moving the speakers 5-6" closer to the front wall, but it had negligible effect.
I think it could be at least partially due to the differences in how I was situated in the room when testing. Tonight I was sitting/ducking in the area between coffee table and center speaker on the floor tonight, left half of center, away from the subwoofer, to the right of the left speaker -- vs previous round, when I was in front of the couch on left side. The subwoofer is front right of room by the right speaker. I also had the mic sitting on a different box the first time, and a big thick pillow behind it, versus tonight the mic was just sitting on a box with no extra pillow behind it. Potentially slightly different height and/or inches forward/backward between the two times.
The graph you touched up was from today, and that 200-450Hz was not missing when I measured, on 12/13, in my previous post.
*All graphs are L+R+Sub
Original measurements from 2 weeks ago > blue = final "Audyssey = On, DEQ = Off" outcome the first time, red = speakers set to Large w no Audyssey
Tonight's measurements > Green is "before," so it's the same settings as the Blue line above (except I added a small cut @ 18-25Hz range after the Blue line above, and may have changed the sub level in the AVR).
When I measured RTA peaks with Moving Mic, I was in front of the front left of the couch, same place where I was for the measurements 2 weeks ago. Maybe crouching at the front of the room was "absorbing" some of the bass and/or...? The 200-450Hz section has the energy returned when I did RTA MMM measurements at the end to verify before wrappin up, versus the static measurements -- all the below are from tonight.
Green = RTA MMM / Audyssey OFF
Blue = RTA MMM / Audyssey ON / DEQ OFF
Dark Red = Static / Audyssey OFF
Med Orange = Static / Audyssey ON / DEQ OFF
You can see the extra 3-5dB in 100-450Hz for the blue RTA MMM peaks versus the Orange/Red lines.
Same graph in 1/6 smoothing
So maybe my camping location tonight was messing with the bass absorption in that range?
Maybe the only way to get a truly "accurate" measurement is sitting in the MLP with the mic in front of your face?
Sitting on the couch while I type this and listening to music, I can move my head back from my normal position 6" or so and hear a noticeable decrease in that higher bass range. So maybe the thick pillow behind the box holding the mic 2 weeks ago pushed the mic more forward closer to where my head normally is versus tonight when I didn't have the pillow behind the box holding the mic.
I think it could be at least partially due to the differences in how I was situated in the room when testing. Tonight I was sitting/ducking in the area between coffee table and center speaker on the floor tonight, left half of center, away from the subwoofer, to the right of the left speaker -- vs previous round, when I was in front of the couch on left side. The subwoofer is front right of room by the right speaker. I also had the mic sitting on a different box the first time, and a big thick pillow behind it, versus tonight the mic was just sitting on a box with no extra pillow behind it. Potentially slightly different height and/or inches forward/backward between the two times.
The graph you touched up was from today, and that 200-450Hz was not missing when I measured, on 12/13, in my previous post.
*All graphs are L+R+Sub
Original measurements from 2 weeks ago > blue = final "Audyssey = On, DEQ = Off" outcome the first time, red = speakers set to Large w no Audyssey
Tonight's measurements > Green is "before," so it's the same settings as the Blue line above (except I added a small cut @ 18-25Hz range after the Blue line above, and may have changed the sub level in the AVR).
When I measured RTA peaks with Moving Mic, I was in front of the front left of the couch, same place where I was for the measurements 2 weeks ago. Maybe crouching at the front of the room was "absorbing" some of the bass and/or...? The 200-450Hz section has the energy returned when I did RTA MMM measurements at the end to verify before wrappin up, versus the static measurements -- all the below are from tonight.
Green = RTA MMM / Audyssey OFF
Blue = RTA MMM / Audyssey ON / DEQ OFF
Dark Red = Static / Audyssey OFF
Med Orange = Static / Audyssey ON / DEQ OFF
You can see the extra 3-5dB in 100-450Hz for the blue RTA MMM peaks versus the Orange/Red lines.
Same graph in 1/6 smoothing
So maybe my camping location tonight was messing with the bass absorption in that range?
Maybe the only way to get a truly "accurate" measurement is sitting in the MLP with the mic in front of your face?
Sitting on the couch while I type this and listening to music, I can move my head back from my normal position 6" or so and hear a noticeable decrease in that higher bass range. So maybe the thick pillow behind the box holding the mic 2 weeks ago pushed the mic more forward closer to where my head normally is versus tonight when I didn't have the pillow behind the box holding the mic.
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Never, Ever trust the graph Dirac presents.
It is only a estimate.
Just share REW measurements before and after Dirac correction.
Indeed, what Dirac software shows has not too much with real response.
I’m using DDRC-24 with DL and I’ve done tons of measurements.
My protocol is REW measurements before DL implementation, then another REW measurement after DL calibration.
I compared DL predictions with real measurements many times and they have never looked close to the reality.
DL software makes it more wishful.
Don’t take it personal, it’s just a tip how to look at the results more realistically.
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