Setting up my speakers with my amp ?

[kevinsonic]

Ok so i'm still waiting for my tweeters.

In the meantime, my first question is capping my speakers.

None of my 4 woofers have any caps, and neither did the old tweeter.
But it seems like everyone on here advises me to add them, so i will.

Can i use the caps attached in the picture ? i have 6 of them.
The idea is to extended the legs with copper wire soldering it.

I take it these are polarized caps so the gold stripe should be soldered to negative and the other to positive ?

But will these caps be ok ?

Then:

My crossover right here:

i guess it's basic, but just for you guys to see as it might be useful as the thread progresses. It seems to have an "IN" "BASS" and TWEETER" Not sure how it works as i have wires going to both woofers and to the tweeter, might "IN" be midrange ?

one of the woofer pics also attached.

 

[Penelinfi]

"IN" is just the input from the amp/binding posts.

It looks like maybe the woofers have a coil and the tweeter has one cap and resistor. The little thing near the IN + is a protection device.

Not sure exactly what you are trying to do with the caps, but those in your hand there are polarised caps (strip with -ve symbols). To use them you would need to connect them back to back, apparently, according to this I found on the internet... (you cannot use just one unless you want some distortion)

I guess if you connected that across the woofer terminals, it would turn a first order crossover into a second order crossover, but you may also have reactive peak effects which could potentially make things sound worse than expected. At 220uF (110uF as shown in diagram above), it will roll off the woofer midrange quite early.

If you connect them in series with the woofer terminal, then it will roll off the bass and potentially react with woofer impedance and give a slight boost in upper bass. Though 110uF may be a little too small of a value here?

What speakers are these anyhow? And what new tweeters?

 

[kevinsonic]

"IN" is just the input from the amp/binding posts.

It looks like maybe the woofers have a coil and the tweeter has one cap and resistor. The little thing near the IN + is a protection device.

Not sure exactly what you are trying to do with the caps, but those in your hand there are polarised caps (strip with -ve symbols). To use them you would need to connect them back to back, apparently, according to this I found on the internet... (you cannot use just one unless you want some distortion)

View attachment 470473

I guess if you connected that across the woofer terminals, it would turn a first order crossover into a second order crossover, but you may also have reactive peak effects which could potentially make things sound worse than expected. At 220uF (110uF as shown in diagram above), it will roll off the woofer midrange quite early.

If you connect them in series with the woofer terminal, then it will roll off the bass and potentially react with woofer impedance and give a slight boost in upper bass. Though 110uF may be a little too small of a value here?

What speakers are these anyhow? And what new tweeters?

i was told adding caps would keep the speakers from getting blown, (just as an added safety measurement) but if it is going to mess with the crossover perhaps i should leave it thanks, speakers is as per pictures
one tweeter got blown but replacing it with the closest match (which is quite closes_ just waiting on ebay shipment.

 

[DVDdoug]

i was told adding caps would keep the speakers from getting blown,

The crossover already has at least one capacitor which blocks bass from the tweeter. It doesn't guarantee that the tweeter won't be blown but bass is but the bass is higher-power than the highs so without crossover you are more-likely to fry it and very likely to hear distortion.

Some cheap speakers just have a capacitor in series with the tweeter instead of a full crossover.

An additional capacitor won't help without fouling-up how the crossover is working.

...When people use active crossovers (in a bi-amped or tri-amped setup with separate amplifiers for the woofer and tweeter) it's a good idea to add an extra capacitor in case something goes wrong.

one tweeter got blown

Maybe you need a higher-power tweeter, or don't listen so loud.

 

[Penelinfi]

Maybe you need a higher-power tweeter, or don't listen so loud.

I found a post by them on another forum; apparently they were sold the speakers like that

 

[kevinsonic]

The crossover already has at least one capacitor which blocks bass from the tweeter. It doesn't guarantee that the tweeter won't be blown but bass is but the bass is higher-power than the highs so without crossover you are more-likely to fry it and very likely to hear distortion.

Some cheap speakers just have a capacitor in series with the tweeter instead of a full crossover.

An additional capacitor won't help without fouling-up how the crossover is working.

...When people use active crossovers (in a bi-amped or tri-amped setup with separate amplifiers for the woofer and tweeter) it's a good idea to add an extra capacitor in case something goes wrong.


Maybe you need a higher-power tweeter, or don't listen so loud.

Thank you sir, it saves me some work.

 

[kevinsonic]

I found a post by them on another forum; apparently they were sold the speakers like that

Yes indeed, i did however get a discount on the asking price, and the woofers are fine, I personally won't go past the speakers limits, i don't want to be deaf at age 70, i mean whats life without music yes ? !

 

[kevinsonic]

a minor head scratcher.

If you look up my speakers, you will only find some info on the pioneer sh 309 V towers, mine is the sh309 not "V" and there is obvious different woofers being used between the 2 models. Now my impendence is 4 ohms.

Then there is the SH 310 model, and it's woofers looks exactly like mine.

So now i'm wondering, was sh310 woofers perhaps put into my sh309's towers ?

The issue i'm having is that my speakers looks the the same as the sh310's.

The actual sh310 towers is rated at 8 ohms.
My sh309 towers is rated at 4 ohms.

Could it be that my sh309's is 8 ohms, because perhaps they put sh310 speakers into my sh309 towers ?

The tweeters measure in at 6.9 ohms so they are 8 ohm tweeters. i have not measured the woofers yet.

Then does the speakers determine the overall ohm rating of a speaker system, or is it the crossover or all combined ?

 

[Mart68]

Ok so i'm still waiting for my tweeters.

In the meantime, my first question is capping my speakers.

None of my 4 woofers have any caps, and neither did the old tweeter.
But it seems like everyone on here advises me to add them, so i will.

Can i use the caps attached in the picture ? i have 6 of them.
The idea is to extended the legs with copper wire soldering it.

I take it these are polarized caps so the gold stripe should be soldered to negative and the other to positive ?

But will these caps be ok ?

Then:

My crossover right here:

i guess it's basic, but just for you guys to see as it might be useful as the thread progresses. It seems to have an "IN" "BASS" and TWEETER" Not sure how it works as i have wires going to both woofers and to the tweeter, might "IN" be midrange ?

one of the woofer pics also attached.

So your speakers already have a cap on the tweeters which is no surprise as otherwise they would blow every time you switch on.

The other component is an inductor which will stop the bass units from playing full range. That's a good thing.

You don't need to do anything other than replace the tweeters. It doesn't really matter what the nominal impedance of the speakers are, pretty much all amplifiers will have no issues with the load.

 

[DanielT]

Ok so i'm still waiting for my tweeters.

In the meantime, my first question is capping my speakers.

None of my 4 woofers have any caps, and neither did the old tweeter.
But it seems like everyone on here advises me to add them, so i will.

Can i use the caps attached in the picture ? i have 6 of them.
The idea is to extended the legs with copper wire soldering it.

I take it these are polarized caps so the gold stripe should be soldered to negative and the other to positive ?

But will these caps be ok ?

Then:

My crossover right here:

i guess it's basic, but just for you guys to see as it might be useful as the thread progresses. It seems to have an "IN" "BASS" and TWEETER" Not sure how it works as i have wires going to both woofers and to the tweeter, might "IN" be midrange ?

one of the woofer pics also attached.

The resistor in your crossover is there to lower the tweeter from playing too loud (in relation to the bass drivers). If it works well with your new tweeter, that you can test. I don't know what the stated sensitivity of your new tweeter is. If it sounds too low with the new tweeter, you can remove the resistor and listen to how it sounds. The resistor on the tweeter functions a bit like a volume control for the tweeter, you could say.
A speaker with the resistor, the second speaker without the resistor, then you use the balance control on your amp and listen to each speaker. To get an idea of which one you think sounds best.

Note that it is the resistor that you can test using with or without, the capacitor for the tweeter MUST always be there otherwise the tweeter will break.

 

[Penelinfi]

a minor head scratcher.

If you look up my speakers, you will only find some info on the pioneer sh 309 V towers, mine is the sh309 not "V" and there is obvious different woofers being used between the 2 models. Now my impendence is 4 ohms.

Then there is the SH 310 model, and it's woofers looks exactly like mine.

So now i'm wondering, was sh310 woofers perhaps put into my sh309's towers ?

The issue i'm having is that my speakers looks the the same as the sh310's.

The actual sh310 towers is rated at 8 ohms.
My sh309 towers is rated at 4 ohms.

Could it be that my sh309's is 8 ohms, because perhaps they put sh310 speakers into my sh309 towers ?

The tweeters measure in at 6.9 ohms so they are 8 ohm tweeters. i have not measured the woofers yet.

Then does the speakers determine the overall ohm rating of a speaker system, or is it the crossover or all combined ?

After seeing that pic of the tweeter bubbled up, it wouldn't surprise me if the previous owner blew up the woofers lol

 

[kevinsonic]

So your speakers already have a cap on the tweeters which is no surprise as otherwise they would blow every time you switch on.

The other component is an inductor which will stop the bass units from playing full range. That's a good thing.

You don't need to do anything other than replace the tweeters. It doesn't really matter what the nominal impedance of the speakers are, pretty much all amplifiers will have no issues with the load.

Great thank you

 

[kevinsonic]

The resistor in your crossover is there to lower the tweeter from playing too loud (in relation to the bass drivers). If it works well with your new tweeter, that you can test. I don't know what the stated sensitivity of your new tweeter is. If it sounds too low with the new tweeter, you can remove the resistor and listen to how it sounds. The resistor on the tweeter functions a bit like a volume control for the tweeter, you could say.
A speaker with the resistor, the second speaker without the resistor, then you use the balance control on your amp and listen to each speaker. To get an idea of which one you think sounds best.

Note that it is the resistor that you can test using with or without, the capacitor for the tweeter MUST always be there otherwise the tweeter will break.

I will test it good idea thank you.

 

[kevinsonic]

After seeing that pic of the tweeter bubbled up, it wouldn't surprise me if the previous owner blew up the woofers lol

Thats a possible conclusion, so then he likely replaced it with the sh310's woofers, not sure if he changed out the crossover but it looks quite clean.
that is if what we say did play out which is possible.

 

[kevinsonic]

I tracked my tweeter parcel from germany to SA via dhl, but now its been sitting still for 5 days with no movement, thats time causing for concern, as i can't find any info on where the parcel is or what the hold up is.

 

[DanielT]

I will test it good idea thank you.

But only if you think your new tweeter sounds too low.

Check that the cables end up in the right place on + and - on your new tweeter. This is seen in relation to how the cables are connected on bass woffers. If you connect incorrectly, the speaker will be out of phase and you will get a hole in the FR.
If, for some reason, you do not see how it should be connected, connect the cables on the tweeter in two different ways and listen to each speaker, choose the variant that you think sounds best.

 

[kevinsonic]

I go by speaker cable colour from the crossover, but that might also be mixed up i guess, also one speaker terminal is wider than the other, i think the narrow terminal i usually positive. but in any case your test is the go to should it not sound right thank you.