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Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

solderdude

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powerful amp which can control the drivers movement should solve this.

How does this work... I mean how can an amplifier that can provide more headroom have more 'control' over drivers when used below limits ?
What is the workings of 'gripping' drivers, how does one amp have more 'grip', what is the mechanism ?.
Why would decay and attack be something that is amp dependent and what measurements would be evidence of this ?
Why would one DAC make certain frequencies more pronounced when this isn't shown to be so in measurements nor in null tests ?
When you test do you know what DAC is actually playing ?
 
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Julf

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You can explain in a decent way, but you are just plain arrogant.

Ah, the ad hominem stage. :)

I could explain in a decent way, but faced with the likely prospect of "I am not convinced", I'd rather not waste my time.
 

Objectivist01

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Ah, the ad hominem stage. :)

I could explain in a decent way, but faced with the likely prospect of "I am not convinced", I'd rather not waste my time.
I am not convinced is Factual statement i made to an explanation. It’s not same as making fun of someone’s name.
 

Julf

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I am not convinced is Factual statement i made to an explanation. It’s not same as making fun of someone’s name.

I wasn't really making fun of your handle (I am sure it is not your real name) but of your stated objectivist ambitions.
 

andreasmaaan

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Why? Its the masking of adjacent sounds in simple terms. If you have slow driver moving back and forth, it essentially means you are letting the train of signals letting overlap. Either use a faster driver, or use a powerful amp which can control the drivers movement should solve this. Hearing details is only result of not letting frequency masking and temporal masking happening. That’s what I know.

"Fast/slow driver" doesn't make sense in the way you're using it here.

Firstly, sound pressure produced by a speaker driver diaphragm is not proportional to it speed (or rather velocity), but rather to its acceleration. As long as a diaphragm can accelerate quickly, it needn't be moving fast.

Secondly, a powerful amp does not control a driver's movement better than a weaker amp.

Thirdly, frequency masking (or rather spectral masking) and temporal masking are best not thought of as separate phenomena. Masking either occurs or it does not, and whether or not it occurs is dependent on both the temporal relationship and the spectral relationship between masker and maskee.

Fourthly, hearing details does not result from the absence of masking.

It may help to think of it this way: An effective masker (masking sound) in the presence of a maskee (sound that is masked) sounds exactly the same as that same masker in the absence of the maskee. That is literally the definition of masking: when it is effective, the maskee is completely suppressed by the auditory system.

In other words, the presence of a maskee (or maskees) cannot affect/suppress perceived details. Indeed, so long as masking is effective, the presence of the maskee(s) by definition does not affect the sound at all.
 
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solderdude

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where's the math showing this ? ;)
 

solderdude

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You need to read it again.
Damping current = voltage/all resistance in series. Vary 1 of them a little opposite the biggest value (the headphone DC resistance) and some relative small variance in the output resistance (opposite the headphone resistance) leads to insignificantly small changes in damping current.
 

solderdude

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Yes, damping factor is a nice number with little to no relevance to headphone drivers.
Arguably there is a HUGE difference in number between a DF of 10,000 and 10.
In practice (the current that does the actual damping which is not achieved mechanical) itself varies just 10%
So an output resistance of 0.1 Ohm practically doesn't differ anything compared to say 2 or 3 Ohm with headphones with impedances above 32 Ohm.
 

QMuse

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Secondly, a powerful amp does not control a driver's movement better than a weaker amp.

He was probably referring to an amp with a higher damping factor, which indeed can stop loudspeaker driver's movement faster once the signal has stopped. Although any difference between amps with damping factor higher than 150 is probably inaudible. :D
 

mansr

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You need to read it again.
Damping current = voltage/all resistance in series. Vary 1 of them a little opposite the biggest value (the headphone DC resistance) and some relative small variance in the output resistance (opposite the headphone resistance) leads to insignificantly small changes in damping current.
I'm sure you can find a terrible amp with noticeably high output impedance.
 

solderdude

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For speakers (with relatively heavy cones and acoustical loads) things differ.
For passive speakers one also has to take the lowpass impedance/resistance of the filter + wiring into account.
 

solderdude

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I'm sure you can find a terrible amp with noticeably high output impedance.

Yes, there are countless ones with values upto 600 Ohm. Those will affect FR substantially due to voltage division.
Of course, low impedance headphones with substantial impedance swings, thus relying partly on electrical damping, will sound awful.
Is that mostly due to damping current or voltage division or a combination when DF are smaller than 1 ?
 

hyperplanar

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He was probably referring to an amp with a higher damping factor, which indeed can stop loudspeaker driver's movement faster once the signal has stopped. Although any difference between amps with damping factor higher than 150 is probably inaudible. :D
I’m curious if someone could clear this up for me, does this manifest as anything other than a minimum phase change in frequency response, such as a boost at f_0 when damping factor is reduced? Or is that it?
 

QMuse

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I’m curious if someone could clear this up for me, does this manifest as anything other than a minimum phase change in frequency response, such as a boost at f_0 when damping factor is reduced? Or is that it?

Low damping factor manifests as amps inability to reduce post ringing of the driver after the signal has stopped.
 

hyperplanar

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Low damping factor manifests as amps inability to reduce post ringing of the driver after the signal has stopped.
My question is whether this increases the ringing of frequencies beyond what an equivalent minimum phase boost to the FR would do or not.
 
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