Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

[scott wurcer]

and asked for sighted opinions on sound?

My problem with audio salons is the sighted opinion of me by the proprietor.

 

[Jimbob54]

My problem with audio salons is the sighted opinion of me by the proprietor.

Im fairly sure they see me as a rube. Or possibly a homeless chap.

Either way, I get my free cup of tea.

 

[Jimbob54]

Im fairly sure they see me as a rube. Or possibly a homeless chap.

Either way, I get my free cup of tea.

@scott wurcer @tomelex Assume you are both based in USA. We call them Hi-Fi shops in UK but do you call them audio saloons or salons?

In one, I have visions of rugged dusty cowboy types sipping whisky discussing PRaT and "air".

In the other...

 

[North_Sky]

I don't think you read. Or, if you read, you didn't understand.

Or, possibly, you are throlling.

Trolling, without a "h", Jimbob.

I understand very well and I'm rolling...see.

 

[Jimbob54]

Trolling, without a "h", Jimbob.

I understand very well and I'm rolling...see.

Yes, but no, but maybe yes.

 

[North_Sky]

From the OP:

"Saying a DAC has a sound signature is like saying a cable has a sound signature"

So that's what the OP assumed.

I have had experiences where changing interconnect made the combined gear have a 5db drop at 15k, so it's clear that interconnect/cable can have weird interactions depending on application. Of course, if said gear [Ampex MX-10 microphone preamp] had a cathode follower, this wouldn't happen. I suspect there are similar situations involving naturally "broken" designs, like SETs.

But I digress, a DAC includes an analog output stage that can alter sound quality. And bad implementation of the digital side can result in audible distortion. Here's the point. There are DACs that have distortion/noise of lower than -115db. Those DACs, or so Amirm says, ought to be transparent as their self noise/distortion is less than can be perceived.

That's how I've read it too.
And I'd rather see the measurements in addition to listening in my own system with my own gear (synergy) and in my own room from my own eyes and ears.
That way I feel more equipped, secured, complete.

My ears have their own signature too, so my room with its own acoustic sound signature ... The DAC adds to all other components in the "circuit" patch, or nothing @ all.

It's like wearing a mask; is it better, where, for who, ...do they all have their own protective signature and what people are thinking of it and how to deal with them in respect to what's the best protective signature for the general public in public places where the minimum distancing is hard to obtain @ all times.
A bit like that for a cohesive understanding in regards to what the OP was requesting.

Some cables and some DACs we can hear with our ears their general differences, sound signatures, everything else being equal. With others the placebo effect comes into play...plus fatigue, etc.

 

[mansr]

I remember a trip to an audio saloon when I was in early twenties

A wild west saloon, the air heavy with smoke and the smell of cheap whiskey. Behind the bar are stacks of amps with glowing tubes, at each end a large horn speaker. On the counter, four or five turntables are neatly lined up. Two men are glaring at each other.
"Nothing beats the soundstage of the McIntosh," says one of the men.
"Be careful what you say, Joe," replies the other as he moves his right hand back, resting it on a coiled-up interconnect hanging off his belt.
"Are you threatening me, Tom?" Joe tenses up, allowing his jacket to reveal a pair of heavy cable lifters holstered underneath.
A few silent moments pass, all eyes on Joe and Tom. Suddenly Tom's hand twitches, unfurling the interconnect with a crack, an unusually pointy RCA plug heading straight for Joe's eye, or where Joe's eye would have been had he not ducked. Instead, the plug sails over Joe's head and strikes one of the amps. The music that had been playing is interrupted by the sound of breaking glass followed by the crackling of electricity as wisps of smoke rise from the remains of the McIntosh and drift across the room.

 

[North_Sky]

Yes, but no, but maybe yes.

When uncertain take your time and life is relaxing. That's how I like my DACs; relaxed, smooth, not aggressive, not irritating, just well balanced with the music I like to listen to.
Bob's own sound signature preference...smooth.

 

[Jimbob54]

That's how I've read it too.
And I'd rather see the measurements in addition to listening in my own system with my own gear (synergy) and in my own room from my own eyes and ears.
That way I feel more equipped, secured, complete.

My ears have their own signature too, so my room with its own acoustic sound signature ... The DAC adds to all other components in the "circuit" patch, or nothing @ all.

It's like wearing a mask; is it better, where, for who, ...do they all have their own protective signature and what people are thinking of it and how to deal with them in respect to what's the best protective signature for the general public in public places where the minimum distancing is hard to obtain @ all times.
A bit like that for a cohesive understanding in regards to what the OP was requesting.

Some cables and some DACs we can hear with our ears their general differences, sound signatures, everything else being equal. With others the placebo effect comes into play...plus fatigue, etc.

Then I fear you have completely misunderstood the OP. It is without shadow of doubt a plea/ rant/ call to arms as to how to cope with people that persist in saying DACs have a sound signature. He starts with a despairing and disparaging view on those that say they can hear a difference in cables then moves onto DACS.

It is not a request for help in choosing equipment, not a request for opinions on the best sounding DACs. It is the sound of a very well recorded and accurately reproduced head banging against a brick wall.

 

[Jimbob54]

A wild west saloon, the air heavy with smoke and the smell of cheap whiskey. Behind the bar are stacks of amps with glowing tubes, at each end a large horn speaker. On the counter, four or five turntables are neatly lined up. Two men are glaring at each other.
"Nothing beats the soundstage of the McIntosh," says one of the men.
"Be careful what you say, Joe," replies the other as he moves his right hand back, resting it on a coiled-up interconnect hanging off his belt.
"Are you threatening me, Tom?" Joe tenses up, allowing his jacket to reveal a pair of heavy cable lifters holstered underneath.
A few silent moments pass, all eyes on Joe and Tom. Suddenly Tom's hand twitches, unfurling the interconnect with a crack, an unusually pointy RCA plug heading straight for Joe's eye, or where Joe's eye would have been had he not ducked. Instead, the plug sails over Joe's head and strikes one of the amps. The music that had been playing is interrupted by the sound of breaking glass followed by the crackling of electricity as wisps of smoke rise from the remains of the McIntosh and drift across the room.

Haha- my thoughts exactly.

 

[North_Sky]

Then I fear you have completely misunderstood the OP. It is without shadow of doubt a plea/ rant/ call to arms as to how to cope with people that persist in saying DACs have a sound signature. He starts with a despairing and disparaging view on those that say they can hear a difference in cables then moves onto DACS.

It is not a request for help in choosing equipment, not a request for opinions on the best sounding DACs. It is the sound of a very well recorded and accurately reproduced head banging against a brick wall.

I guess I'm just more positive in my interpretation.
And that's fine with me.

 

[North_Sky]

By the way I don't see the OP; so that too enters in my analysis (understanding).

His avatar/Willhelm_Scream

 

[Billy Budapest]

@scott wurcer @tomelex Assume you are both based in USA. We call them Hi-Fi shops in UK but do you call them audio saloons or salons?

In one, I have visions of rugged dusty cowboy types sipping whisky discussing PRaT and "air".

In the other...
View attachment 65037

In the USA, you would have called them Hi-Fi shops or stores, too. However, today they are almost extinct.

 

[Jimbob54]

By the way I don't see the OP; so that too enters in my analysis (understanding).

Im fairly sure they ended their time here after realising they had created the perfect trap for both trolls and troll hunters on this forum.

Can we talk about pineapples, or guns, or cars now please.

Even better beer, Or audio saloons. I like the sound of them.

 

[Jimbob54]

In the USA, you would have called them Hi-Fi shops or stores, too. However, today they are almost extinct.

*sad face*

 

[North_Sky]

Im fairly sure they ended their time here after realising they had created the perfect trap for both trolls and troll hunters on this forum.

Can we talk about pineapples, or guns, or cars now please.

Even better beer, Or audio saloons. I like the sound of them.

1,176 posts ...

 

[Jimbob54]

I guess I'm just more positive in my interpretation.
And that's fine with me.

 

[Wombat]

Im fairly sure they ended their time here after realising they had created the perfect trap for both trolls and troll hunters on this forum.

Can we talk about pineapples, or guns, or cars now please.

Even better beer, Or audio saloons. I like the sound of them.

 

[North_Sky]

View attachment 65038

Your style resembles your avatar.

 

[PenguinMusic]

Of course you are not wrong - as long as you don't make any claims beyond personal preference/perception.

Hi,

Yeah... I do not do that.

I always say "I like this more". Not "This one sounds better".