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Serious question-How do you deal with people thinking a DAC has a SOUND SIGNATURE?

Julf

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Milesian : if I get you right, you're saying (probably as I do) that some people are "subjectively" believing that they hear differences (and if they believe they do, they are indeed hearing them) and that people saying "it cannot be measured so it cannot be" should leave them alone and let them hearing/beliving they are hearing differences?
Yes, leave them alone - unless they make public claims based on what they believe they hear instead of verified evidence.
 

cjf

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Might I suggest the purchase of some of these for those who can't hear differences between some DAC's?

 
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It should be obvious by now that there’s a parameter that no one has yet discovered how to measure. i will call it Audio-Umami. Some are more sensitive than others in discerning it’s subtlety. More power to them. They can listen, enjoy, and smile whilst others babble the worn out ‘snake-oil’ cliche.
 

solderdude

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It should be obvious by now that there’s a parameter that no one has yet discovered how to measure.
:D The parameter that disappears in level matched blind tests you mean ? :facepalm:
 

LTig

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It should be obvious by now that there’s a parameter that no one has yet discovered how to measure. i will call it Audio-Umami. Some are more sensitive than others in discerning it’s subtlety. More power to them. They can listen, enjoy, and smile whilst others babble the worn out ‘snake-oil’ cliche.
Uh huh.
 

RayDunzl

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We must go to the source of uh-huh...

[Thing-Fish:]
Just like you! I see some of y'all be FROWNIN'... 'cause mebbe y'think what I's tellin' ya' is a LIE! How 'bout it, folks? Whatcha say? Id dat right?

[Ensemble:]
Yes, it sho' is!

[Thing-Fish:]
Well, les' jes' have a test... how many o' you nice folks think I knows what I's talkin' 'bout? RAISE Y'HAIN UP! Uh-huh!

An' how many thinks my potato been bakin' too long? RAISE YO MIZZABLE HAIN UP! Uh-huh!

 

Julf

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It should be obvious by now that there’s a parameter that no one has yet discovered how to measure. i will call it Audio-Umami. Some are more sensitive than others in discerning it’s subtlety. More power to them. They can listen, enjoy, and smile whilst others babble the worn out ‘snake-oil’ cliche.
Congratulation in advance for your coming Nobel Prize in Physics. :)
 
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Just assume they have no idea what there talking about, Reddit currently really loves beliving that DAC's sound differnt. 2 reviewers got into a arguement with a user who didn't agree with that hard subjective view.
 
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:D The parameter that disappears in level matched blind tests you mean ? :facepalm:
What are the survey sizes of these blind tests? What is the margin of error? In successive rounds were both sources listed as both option A and B / 1 & 2? What was the age of the participants? what was the listening environment like? Was everyone in the same location of the listening environment? What was the content of the tests? What was the wording of the subsequent survey? how many times was the test repeated?
 

solderdude

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I can only speak of the few tests I performed myself over many years on myself and 1 or 2 others.

Over the years I have 'tested' a few people with 'special hearing abilities' without them knowing being 'tested' and not telling them any results.
This was very fun to do and the results never once surprised me.
Come over and I will gladly test your hearing abilities just take your DS along with you as I don't have one.
 
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Frank Dernie

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What are the survey sizes of these blind tests? What is the margin of error? In successive rounds were both sources listed as both option A and B / 1 & 2? What was the age of the participants? what was the listening environment like? Was everyone in the same location of the listening environment? What was the content of the tests? What was the wording of the subsequent survey? how many times was the test repeated?
I am sure somebody who has access to test results can give you links but I was cured of audiophilia nervosa by doing it for myself.
You could too.
The only difficult but important bit is to match levels precisely (within 0.1dB ideally) using tones and a voltmeter at the output terminals. It makes it difficult to do with headphones to any degree of confidence though using simple kit.
I have been buying fancy hifi to listen to music since 1968. I was convinced there were differences which turned out to be imagined when the levels were precisely matched, even when I knew what I was listening to. Taking away the expectation bias of knowing that wasn't even necessary for me.
The other myth which takes longer to be disproven, since most enthusiasts change kit too often to know, is the idea that long term listening reveals subtle differences. It was about 10 years ago I did proper matched level tests which disabused me of the idea of differences between DACs. Since then I have changed pretty well nothing in my main system but still it sounds better sometimes. Back when I was still wasting money on unnecessary changes I would have attributed thie improvement to a new piece of gear. I now know this is wrong since there isn't a new piece of gear, the improvement is maybe mood, maybe a better recording (IME recording quality differences are immensly bigger than the SQ differences in equipment) but definitely not hifi equipment.
Whilst I hear differences between microphones (and particularly surprisingly big differences between microphone positions), speakers and headphones plus power amplifiers the low level electronics need to be very broken to be bad enough to sound differnt to a simple competantly engineered unit - most of which are many times better than they need to be to be audibly transparent.
 
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