Serious Question: How can Op Amp rolling improve the sound of an already well measuring device? Are that many confused? (Master Thread)

[Jimbob54]

Does it matter if the quote is worded differently? As a result, does everyone know what their comment was?

Yes it matters . Next time is a warning and a thread ban

 

[MAB]

I would appreciate it if you could teach me how to compare instead of criticizing.

The comment wasn't even dimly critical. It explained exactly what to compare, in a kind tone.

Yes it matters . Next time is a warning and a thread ban

I'm more concerned about the parts written in English. This is an opamp rolling thread on ASR. There are websites devoted to the counterproductive practice of rolling opamps where anybody who questions the practice is banned. Is it on the ASR membership to debug every bogus circuit application with infinite patience and tolerance to pushback?

 

[Blumlein 88]

I plan to complete all these efforts. Just comparisons with computer testing software are enough for me.

I'm using it a little more roughly because I don't have as much detailed information as you. I ask you to comment by putting yourself in my shoes, that is, by empathizing.
Ama bunu sıfırdan yaparsanız kendinizden ne kadar memnun kalacağınızı düşünün .



We apologize for the translation error.

Yes, I tried Maxtech drivers and found them really successful. Anker Q30 headphones have high sound power at 600ohms and with the equalizer, they have outputs that are strong enough to damage the ear. In my research, I saw that the topping d30 ll was very successful, of course, but since it did not have a bluetooth feature, I preferred the fiio bta30pro. I also play my music albums with foobar or roon and use asio or wasapi. The USB interface is good, but stability problems may occur between 2.0 and 3.0. For example, it supports DAC 2.0, but there is no port other than USB 3.0 on my computer. How can we?


It works but is not stable.

Never heard of any DAC having issues if it was USB 2.0 (or even earlier) playing via USB 3.0 in any situation.

 

[DreaminquE]

Yes it matters . Next time is a warning and a thread ban

well thank you.

 

[Doodski]

The comment wasn't even dimly critical. It explained exactly what to compare, in a kind tone.

I'm more concerned about the parts written in English. This is an opamp rolling thread on ASR. There are websites devoted to the counterproductive practice of rolling opamps where anybody who questions the practice is banned. Is it on the ASR membership to debug every bogus circuit application with infinite patience and tolerance to pushback?

Blocking every roller is counterproductive to building the ASR membership.

 

[MAB]

Blocking every roller is counterproductive to building the ASR membership.

Master opamp rolling thread is one option.
Another is to simply raise the bar for thread creation. Creating threads and membership growth are only partially linked. I doubt that reducing these types of threads (opamp rolling, sound of capacitors, etc.) is going to seriously reduce membership growth. If so, fine, many of us are not comfortable with every member of the planet creating threads here.

In this specific case the member needs to learn first before arguing, plenty of learning is available. If they actually had an appetite for learning, and for reporting actual measurements on what they are studying, we could have an actual opamp rolling thread, maybe even one that explores why it's a bad idea (for once).

 

[Doodski]

we could have an actual opamp rolling thread

Sure. Then MODs can dump the rolling arguments and rubbish into that thread. I am a bit tired of the steady flow of rollers coming here with their buzz words and seemingly just here to tell what they are doing and not listen to reason.

 

[LGD_]

Yes, I tried Maxtech drivers and found them really successful. Anker Q30 headphones have high sound power at 600ohms and with the equalizer, they have outputs that are strong enough to damage the ear. In my research, I saw that the topping d30 ll was very successful, of course, but since it did not have a bluetooth feature, I preferred the fiio bta30pro. I also play my music albums with foobar or roon and use asio or wasapi. The USB interface is good, but stability problems may occur between 2.0 and 3.0. For example, it supports DAC 2.0, but there is no port other than USB 3.0 on my computer. How can we?


It works but is not stable.

While the Maxtech drivers worked better than stock (horrible) Asus drivers, I did sometimes have stability issues with ASIO and Maxtech.
I've experienced no stability problems at all (ASIO) with my Topping E30 ll DAC- which has a USB 2.0 input.
BTW, your USB 3.0 ports are also compatible with USB 2.0 - that's what I'm doing.

 

[MAB]

Sure. Then MODs can dump the rolling arguments and rubbish into that thread. I am a bit tired of the steady flow of rollers coming here with their buzz words and seemingly just here to tell what they are doing and not listen to reason.

Yeah, good description, and we are collectively fatigued with this.

I am more in favor of limiting thread creation. It really doesn't help for people to create one of these unfortunate threads, be it trolling or sincere lack of knowledge, and get cast into a big contentious dumpster thread. It would help for them to have to pause, think, and perhaps read some educational content first before posting new content. Unfortunately we now have so many incoherent threads on ASR, it is nearly impossible to reasonably find good educational info here anymore. This thread is a good example, OP wants a bunch of members to have complete patience simultaneously teach university-level electrical engineering and psychoacoustics while they are working on a soundcard, and snaps at even the very first post from staticV3.

I'm much more in favor of raising the bar for thread-creation.

edit: typo

 

[Jim Taylor]

"Op-amp rolling" isn't even a legitimate thing, actually.
A dedicated thread for it makes about as much sense as the practice itself.

Dave Reite.

Although I wholeheartedly agree, out Fearless Leader has been of the opinion that a certain amount of tolerance would allow newbies with antipathetic views to be exposed to science and logic, thus (perhaps) changing their outlook.

It's his site, and he pays the bills, so I won't argue. But IMO, allowing too much of this crap gives it the false appearance of legitimacy, destroying the basic reason many of us are here, namely that this is a haven from lunacy.

 

[Jimbob54]

"Op-amp rolling" isn't even a legitimate thing, actually.
A dedicated thread for it makes about as much sense as the practice itself.

Dave Reite.

Should we make it a somewhat taboo and shady practice that audiophiles do on the downlow?

 

[Jimbob54]

Should we make it a somewhat taboo and shady practice that audiophiles do on the downlow?

I don't care what anyone sticks in any socket as long as it's safe . But if they want to claim on here the result is better than stock they need measurements and / or controlled tests .

 

[threni]

Should we make it a somewhat taboo and shady practice that audiophiles do on the downlow?

Create a forum for all this nonsense, move the threads into it and let people question/argue AI chatbots to keep them away from the rest of the site? (Sort of like how if you cheat at the chess site lichess.org your account gets marked and you only get paired with other cheats).

 

[Jimbob54]

Create a forum for all this nonsense, move the threads into it and let people question/argue AI chatbots to keep them away from the rest of the site? (Sort of like how if you cheat at the chess site lichess.org your account gets marked and you only get paired with other cheats).

It doesnt work . We still get umpteen new threads a week asking which dac does /should /would sound better .

We can only educate and expel the ones that go rogue .

 

[Jimbob54]

Who says op-rolling is safe? It's easily possible an alternative op-amp could cause a serious circuit oscillation and destroy some tweeters

Then that should be your approach. Promote safety. And rebut fantastical claims .

 

[JeremyFife]

Create a forum for all this nonsense, move the threads into it and let people question/argue AI chatbots to keep them away from the rest of the site? (Sort of like how if you cheat at the chess site lichess.org your account gets marked and you only get paired with other cheats).

Not sure about that (separate thread). We don't do that for cables, bi-wiring, crossover upgrades etc.
I like that people can bring questions here and be educated. It's tiresome that the same questions come up, and subjective push back is very tiresome ... I think we get through sometimes though, and that's good.

 

[LTig]

Seeking Op-Amp Upgrade Advice for Asus Xonar Essence STX
[..]
Any suggestions or insights are much appreciated!

As others have pointed out, rolling opamps is futile and can be dangerous if you don't know the circuit and how it works.

As an electrical engineer I did roll opamps in a DAC (knowing it to be safe) and fooled myself regarding better sound quality, until a blind test exposed my subjective listening experience as plain wrong. See this posting. It was a humbling experience.

 

[DanielT]

I don't care what anyone sticks in any socket as long as it's safe . But if they want to claim on here the result is better than stock they need measurements and / or controlled tests .

Who says op-rolling is safe? It's easily possible an alternative op-amp could cause a serious circuit oscillation and destroy some tweeters.
When you're dealing with audiophiles, you have to assume worst-case experimentation is the norm.

Dave Reite.

Then that should be your approach. Promote safety. And rebut fantastical claims .

Blowing some tweeters is not what I consider unsafe. Unsafe for me is whether fiddling or changing can lead to physical harm. IF op amp rolling can lead to that, then of course a non-knowledgeable person should not do such a thing. Tinker with electronics and then plug the cord into the wall socket for power to the same thing with which was fiddled.Well. Hm.

For example, someone not knowledgeable in electronics and its dangers amateur who has no idea what he's doing and has to set the bias on a DIY tube amp. That with the amp turned on then with the help of a small screwdriver and multimeter. That can be really dangerous.

This one for example. Screwdriver to set the bias via the blue pots:


Measure the bias setting by inserting the multimeter's probes, alligator clips here. Note the tube amp must be switched on when the measurement takes place:


You should test things, but if there is an obvious risk that it could go wrong and lead to physical injuries of course you shouldn't do it.

 

[johny_2000]

I don't care what anyone sticks in any socket as long as it's safe . But if they want to claim on here the result is better than stock they need measurements and / or controlled tests .

That's right! And I plan to do that soon. I still have that sound card in my PC after 15 years, and I have a bunch of different op amps that will fit it, including the stock ones.

I doubt it will make any significant impact, but now I have a good ADC for audio measurements, an AES17 notch filter, and REW / MultiTone apps, and we can compare the objective output results of the op amp rolls.

 

[Jimbob54]

That's right! And I plan to do that soon. I still have that sound card in my PC after 15 years, and I have a bunch of different op amps that will fit it, including the stock ones.

I doubt it will make any significant impact, but now I have a good ADC for audio measurements, an AES17 notch filter, and REW / MultiTone apps, and we can compare the objective output results of the op amp rolls.

Be prepared to be disappointed.