Serious Question: How can Op Amp rolling improve the sound of an already well measuring device? Are that many confused? (Master Thread)

[DreaminquE]

I would appreciate it if you could teach me how to compare instead of criticizing.

 

[JeremyFife]

I would appreciate it if you could teach me how to compare instead of criticizing.

No criticism intended, and apologies if I came across that way.

To compare by listening, you must apply a set of controls. One of those is fast switching, which is impossible in your case (because of time taken to swap opamps).

Your alternative is to record the output with/without opamps and compare the recording.
There is great software that helps you level match and time align two recordings, and will automate that ABX process.
Search this site for listening test methods, and for Delaware.

Accept that without these controls, and the effort you have to put in to apply them, just listening really tells you nothing at all.

Of course, it's your system and if you decide one way sounds better then that is completely your choice - I have no issue with that.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Hi @DreaminquE

I’ll retract what I said about you being a troll -you seem interested in learning.

Blind testing different op-amps, which I understand is what you're aiming to do, can be challenging without having two identical devices. Quick switching between them is essential since our auditory memory isn’t reliable enough for comparisons with a 10-minute gap.
From an electrical and physical standpoint, as others have pointed out, there’s no clear reason why different op-amps would sound different. If they do, it’s likely due to oscillation causing high-frequency harmonics near the upper limit of human hearing.
The surrounding circuitry is typically designed to complement the specifications of a particular op-amp.

If you're looking to improve sound quality to suit your preferences, options like EQ, DSP, room correction software, or even upgrading your speakers will provide more noticeable and objective results than pursuing marketing claims from op-amp salesmen.

 

[DanielT]

Unfortunately, I do not have any technical knowledge. I only learned by reading the topics. I ordered it to experience it. Thank you for your comments.

A tip, if you want to learn via hands on DIY, see page 4, #62 in the thread linked below:

Replace OP amps. Completely pointless, or not?

Here is a link to a somewhat unusual subwoofer. https://www.transcendentsound.com/bucket-sub.html The sub itself is cheap and easy to hide if you get a black bucket. My son and I built one for his system using the Dayton 230 rack mount sub amp - got it cheap off of facebook marketplace...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[DreaminquE]

Eleştiri amacım yok, eğer öyle algılandıysam özür dilerim.

Dinleyerek karşılaştırmak için bir dizi kontrol uygulamanız gerekir. Bunlardan biri hızlı anahtarlamadır, sizin durumunuzda bu imkansızdır (opamp'leri değiştirmek için gereken zaman nedeniyle).

Alternatifiniz, çıkışı opamp'lı/opamp'sız olarak kaydedip kaydı karşılaştırmaktır.
İki kaydı seviye eşleştirmenize ve zaman hizalamanıza yardımcı olan ve bu ABX sürecini otomatikleştiren harika bir yazılım var.
Dinleme testi yöntemleri ve Delaware için bu siteyi arayın.

Bu kontroller ve bunları uygulamak için sarf etmeniz gereken çaba olmadan, sadece dinlemenin size hiçbir şey söylemeyeceğini kabul edin.

Elbette bu sizin sisteminiz ve eğer bir yolun daha iyi olduğuna karar verirseniz bu tamamen sizin seçiminizdir - benim bununla ilgili bir sorunum yok.

Making time for a hobby is a pleasure for me.
I would be grateful if you could remotely access my computer and teach me how to test it. Of course, I also know that the difference in equipment will enhance the listening experience.

Hi @DreaminquE

I’ll retract what I said about you being a troll -you seem interested in learning.

Blind testing different op-amps, which I understand is what you're aiming to do, can be challenging without having two identical devices. Quick switching between them is essential since our auditory memory isn’t reliable enough for comparisons with a 10-minute gap.
From an electrical and physical standpoint, as others have pointed out, there’s no clear reason why different op-amps would sound different. If they do, it’s likely due to oscillation causing high-frequency harmonics near the upper limit of human hearing.
The surrounding circuitry is typically designed to complement the specifications of a particular op-amp.

If you're looking to improve sound quality to suit your preferences, options like EQ, DSP, room correction software, or even upgrading your speakers will provide more noticeable and objective results than pursuing marketing claims from op-amp salesmen.

If you read the subject we want to learn without prejudice, you will understand it more easily.
Of course, it is stupid to buy products that are not original, have no effect, and are sold for marketing purposes. Since I think it is cost effective, I want to test it and find out if it works. I have the necessary equalizer dsp and room correction software.

 

[Jim Taylor]

Except for those who want to condemn.

. My experience is more important

Have you ever been in a classroom where there was a student who refused to accept an idea from the teacher that was, to that student, a new and uncomfortable idea? Some students believe that the teacher is their enemy. That's not true. Some students believe their closely-held ideas are more important. That is not true.

As time goes on, the mass of knowledge that is available to the human race increases. We know more and more, and better and better. To keep up with this increase in knowledge, we need to be flexible and adaptable, and be ready to modify our previous misconceptions. Yes, we must look at new knowledge with a critical eye ... sometimes new "discoveries" prove to be wrong, like the debacle with cold fusion.
However, the principles of peer review and reproducibility will ferret out mistakes and set things aright.
It is these same principles of peer review and reproducibility that have given us the knowledge of audio that you now find so difficult to accept. But what would you think of someone who wanted to rule their life by means of superstition and voodoo? Would you think they were correct? Do you think Steve Jobs was correct in pursuing herbalism for his cancer instead of taking the doctors' advice?

Be flexible. Be adaptable. We're welcoming you into a new world of audio ... one that is proven by science. There is no condemnation here, just correction and teaching from friends, the majority of whom were once held ideas just as you do.

Please join us. We have cookies.

Is the sound controlled by the brain and not the ear? strange..

Some people find this difficult to accept. Please read the link given to you by @threni . The massive number of biases are warning signals that tell us not to trust the subjective aspect of our brain, but only the results of controlled testing that limits the effects of these biases.

This is not opinion. It is the result of research, a few examples being these:

Cognitive Shortcuts — Beth Wonson + Navigating Challenging Dialogue

So I have a question for you: Would you rather go for a leisurely walk on a flat paved path or would you rather bushwhack your way through new and uncharted territory? For me, the answer depends on the day. It depends on how much energy I have, how much time I have, and what I anticipate the rewa

ncdsolution.com

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2041669515607153

Tomorrow.bio

www.tomorrow.bio

 

[DreaminquE]

A tip, if you want to learn via hands on DIY, see page 4, #62 in the thread linked below:
View attachment 431006

Replace OP amps. Completely pointless, or not?

Here is a link to a somewhat unusual subwoofer. https://www.transcendentsound.com/bucket-sub.html The sub itself is cheap and easy to hide if you get a black bucket. My son and I built one for his system using the Dayton 230 rack mount sub amp - got it cheap off of facebook marketplace...

audiosciencereview.com

You are progressing from novice to journeyman, I am not even a beginner yet This is a large-scale issue and I have time to spare for it. because it's a hobby. As a result, we are all trying to enjoy ourselves more.

 

[DanielT]

You are progressing from novice to journeyman, I am not even a beginner yet This is a large-scale issue and I have time to spare for it. because it's a hobby. As a result, we are all trying to enjoy ourselves more.

As long as you have the time, it will work out. Check out the video. Just a few resistors, capacitors, an op amp, volume pot, inputs and outputs, power button, led lamp, batteries and a box. Take out a veroboard and then turn on the soldering iron. BOM is low. You don't need a workshop because you can tinker with the assembly and soldering on your kitchen table.
(try to get the wiring paths as short as possible)

 

[DreaminquE]

Öğretmenin, o öğrenci için yeni ve rahatsız edici bir fikir olan bir fikrini kabul etmeyi reddeden bir öğrencinin olduğu bir sınıfta hiç bulundunuz mu? Bazı öğrenciler, öğretmenlerinin düşmanları olduğuna inanırlar. Bu doğru değildir. Bazı öğrenciler, sıkı sıkıya bağlı oldukları fikirlerinin daha önemli olduğuna inanırlar. Bu doğru değildir.

Zaman geçtikçe, insan ırkının erişebildiği bilgi kütlesi artıyor. Gittikçe daha fazlasını, daha iyisini ve daha iyisini biliyoruz. Bu bilgi artışına ayak uydurmak için esnek ve uyumlu olmalı ve önceki yanlış anlamalarımızı değiştirmeye hazır olmalıyız. Evet, yeni bilgiye eleştirel bir gözle bakmalıyız... bazen yeni "keşifler" yanlış çıkıyor, soğuk füzyon felaketi gibi.
Ancak akran değerlendirmesi ve yeniden üretilebilirlik ilkeleri hataları ortaya çıkaracak ve işleri yoluna koyacaktır.
Aynı akran değerlendirmesi ve yeniden üretilebilirlik ilkeleri, şimdi kabul etmekte çok zorlandığınız ses bilgisini bize vermiştir. Peki hayatını batıl inanç ve vudu yoluyla yönetmek isteyen biri hakkında ne düşünürdünüz? Sizce haklılar mıydı? Steve Jobs'un kanser tedavisi için doktorların tavsiyesini almak yerine bitkisel tedaviyi tercih etmesinin doğru olduğunu düşünüyor musunuz?

Esnek olun. Uyarlanabilir olun. Sizi yeni bir ses dünyasına davet ediyoruz... bilim tarafından kanıtlanmış bir dünyaya. Burada kınama yok, sadece bir zamanlar sizin gibi fikirlere sahip olan çoğunluktan gelen düzeltme ve öğretiler var.

Lütfen bize katılın. Çerezlerimiz var.



Bazı insanlar bunu kabul etmekte zorlanıyor. Lütfen @threni tarafından size verilen bağlantıyı okuyun. Çok sayıda önyargı, beynimizin öznel yönüne güvenmememizi söyleyen uyarı sinyalleridir, ancak yalnızca bu önyargıların etkilerini sınırlayan kontrollü test sonuçlarına güvenmemizi söyler.

Bu bir görüş değil. Araştırmanın sonucudur, birkaç örnek şunlardır:

Cognitive Shortcuts — Beth Wonson + Navigating Challenging Dialogue

So I have a question for you: Would you rather go for a leisurely walk on a flat paved path or would you rather bushwhack your way through new and uncharted territory? For me, the answer depends on the day. It depends on how much energy I have, how much time I have, and what I anticipate the rewa

ncdsolution.com

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2041669515607153

Tomorrow.bio

www.tomorrow.bio

It is more humane for the teacher to teach by clearly and clearly explaining to the student why the subject is important and how seriously it should be taken. Have you ever seen a new student being attacked by his teacher? Opinions may differ, but ultimately we share the same world. Maybe our perspectives are different, it shouldn't be difficult to say that the issues are mispronounced. Steve Jobs listened to everyone. evaluated the results and implemented his own ideas. I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to join you. What brought me here was the hobby we all spend time on. Yes, the test is definitive. My brain will be more pleased when I use a less efficient op-amp because it tells me it has better audio performance without testing. Isn't the aim to increase the level of pleasure?

 

[DreaminquE]

As long as you have the time, it will work out. Check out the video. Just a few resistors, capacitors, an op amp, volume pot, inputs and outputs, power button, led lamp, batteries and a box. Take out a veroboard and then turn on the soldering iron. BOM is low. You don't need a workshop because you can tinker with the assembly and soldering on your kitchen table.

It's easier to use a really simple but ready-made system. I could try just changing a few parts but I think recreating it from scratch is a waste of time. Because I know it is a situation that requires engineering.

 

[solderdude]

I would appreciate it if you could teach me how to compare instead of criticizing.

I would not bother. To do it properly it would take 2 people, a lot of hassle and several hours. Only to find out after 20 attempts that statistically you cannot prove there is an audible difference.
It takes 2 people, one swapping or not swapping but pretending to swap. You cannot see what is in there and the other person must not give any silent hints. Preferably you have to leave the room and should not be in the same room at the same time. The swapper needs to log what is in there and you must write down what you think is in there. At least 20 'attempts'.
Just use what you believe sounds best and enjoy...

 

[Jim Taylor]

. My brain will be more pleased when I use a less efficient op-amp because it tells me it has better audio performance without testing. Isn't the aim to increase the level of pleasure?

As I said in a previous post, you don't need ASR if you wish to travel that path.

You can't eat your cake and have it, too. No one will condemn you for your personal preferences. However, it is incongruous and illogical to expect support for that path here at ASR if it rejects science and logic.

ASR does not stand for "Audio Subjectivist Review".

 

[DanielT]

It's easier to use a really simple but ready-made system. I could try just changing a few parts but I think recreating it from scratch is a waste of time. Because I know it is a situation that requires engineering.

But think how satisfied you would be with yourself if you do it from scratch. Regarding requires engineering...well in a way if you call soldering some stuff together engineering then sure (I don't see it that way). But it's not a design job from scratch. You are just copying a very simple op amp based pre amp solution.
The schematic, with all components' values, are already reported in that video.

In any case, I won't nag anymore. It was just a tip. Sometime in the future you might think it would be a fun project.

Edit:
Speaking of hearing what you want to hear and imagining hearing differences. The video below, even though you KNOW these aren't the lyrics to the songs, your brain quickly re-interprets what Peter Kay is saying. Fascinating and a bit scary, despite the humor of it all:

 

[Jimbob54]

It is more humane for the teacher to teach by clearly and clearly explaining to the student why the subject is important and how seriously it should be taken. Have you ever seen a new student being attacked by his teacher? Opinions may differ, but ultimately we share the same world. Maybe our perspectives are different, it shouldn't be difficult to say that the issues are mispronounced. Steve Jobs listened to everyone. evaluated the results and implemented his own ideas. I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to join you. What brought me here was the hobby we all spend time on. Yes, the test is definitive. My brain will be more pleased when I use a less efficient op-amp because it tells me it has better audio performance without testing. Isn't the aim to increase the level of pleasure?

Please, make sure your quotes and posts are in English. Thanks

 

[LGD_]

Seeking Op-Amp Upgrade Advice for Asus Xonar Essence STX​

Hi everyone,

I’m currently in the process of upgrading the op-amps on my Asus Xonar Essence STX sound card and would love some advice from those who’ve gone through this process or have experience with op-amp upgrades for audio gear.

Current Setup:​

• Sound Card: Asus Xonar Essence STX
• DAC: PCM1792A
• Current Op-Amps: Stock op-amps (which are good, but I’m looking to improve)

What I’m Looking For:​

I’m aiming to achieve a more musical, smooth, and natural sound with better detail and soundstage. I’m particularly interested in improving the clarity of the highs without making them too sharp, and adding more warmth to the mids and lows for a more engaging and enjoyable listening experience.

I’m open to suggestions for op-amps that would help achieve this, especially if you have experience with specific models that have enhanced things like:

• Soundstage width and depth
• Clarity and detail without harshness
• Warmth and musicality in the sound

Op-Amps I’m Considering:​

• MUSES 8820 – I’ve heard great things about this op-amp for providing detail and a natural sound, but I’m wondering how it compares to others in terms of warmth and smoothness.
• OPA2134PA – This is another option I’m looking at, as it’s known for its smooth, musical qualities, which might help with the warmth and tonal balance.

Questions for the Community:​

1. Op-Amp Compatibility: Are there any specific op-amps you would recommend for the Xonar Essence STX that would suit my goals for a more musical and smoother sound?
2. Installation Tips: Any tips or tricks for installing op-amps on this card? I’ve done some research, but it would be great to hear about your experiences.
3. Sound Quality Differences: For those who have tried the MUSES 8820 or OPA2134PA (or any others), what differences did you notice in terms of sound quality, and do you think one would suit my desired outcome better?

Any suggestions or insights are much appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

I've been using the STX ll for several years, with the Maxtech drivers. It's a good default soundcard, but has never been great for quality audio.
I use foobar for music, ASIO (bypassing windows audio) Sennheiser HD 650, (equalized) headphones.
Recently I bought an external DAC (Topping D 30 ll), also using ASIO and foobar for music. Results:
A MASSIVE improvement in sound quality - Night and day ! So now he STX ll only used for watching YouTube videos, etc.
Quoting Amir's advice, from his review of the STX ll:

Ultimately, my strong advice remains to spend your money on external DACs. USB interface

That's my advice too.
Good luck.

 

[DreaminquE]

Uğraşmazdım. Bunu düzgün bir şekilde yapmak için 2 kişi, çok fazla uğraş ve birkaç saat gerekir. Sadece 20 denemeden sonra istatistiksel olarak duyulabilir bir fark olduğunu kanıtlayamayacağınızı öğrenmek için.
2 kişi gerekir, biri takas yapar veya takas yapmaz ama takas yapıyormuş gibi yapar. Orada ne olduğunu göremezsiniz ve diğer kişi hiçbir sessiz ipucu vermemelidir. Tercihen odadan çıkmalısınız ve aynı anda aynı odada olmamalısınız. Takas eden kişi orada ne olduğunu kaydetmeli ve siz de orada ne olduğunu düşündüğünüzü yazmalısınız. En az 20 'deneme'.
Sadece kulağa en hoş gelen şeyi kullanın ve tadını çıkarın...

I plan to complete all these efforts. Just comparisons with computer testing software are enough for me.

Önceki yazımda da belirttiğim gibi, bu yolu kat etmek istiyorsanız ASR'ye ihtiyacınız yok.

Pastanızı yiyip aynı zamanda saklayamazsınız . Kimse sizi kişisel tercihleriniz yüzünden kınamayacaktır. Ancak, ASR'de bilimi ve mantığı reddediyorsa bu yola destek beklemek tutarsız ve mantıksızdır.

ASR yapmaz

I'm using it a little more roughly because I don't have as much detailed information as you. I ask you to comment by putting yourself in my shoes, that is, by empathizing.
Ama bunu sıfırdan yaparsanız kendinizden ne kadar memnun kalacağınızı düşünün .

Tüm bileşenlerin değerlerinin yer aldığı şema zaten o videoda anlatılıyor.

Her neyse, artık sızlanmayacağım. Bu sadece bir ipucuydu. Gelecekte bir gün bunun eğlenceli bir proje olabileceğini düşünebilirsiniz.

Düzenlemek:
Duymak istediğinizi duymaktan ve duyma farklılıklarını hayal etmekten bahsetmişken. Aşağıdaki videoda, bunların şarkı sözleri OLMADIĞINI BİLMENİZE rağmen, beyniniz Peter Kay'in söylediklerini hızla yeniden yorumluyor. Tüm bunların mizahına rağmen büyüleyici ve biraz korkutucu:

[MEDYA=youtube]7my5baoCVv8[/MEDYA]

Lütfen alıntılarınızın ve gönderilerinizin İngilizce olduğundan emin olun. Teşekkürler

We apologize for the translation error.

STX ll'yi birkaç yıldır Maxtech sürücüleriyle kullanıyorum. İyi bir varsayılan ses kartıdır, ancak kaliteli ses için asla harika olmamıştır.
Müzik için Foobar, ASIO (Windows sesini atlayarak), Sennheiser HD 650, (ekolayzır) kulaklık kullanıyorum.
Yakın zamanda harici bir DAC (Topping D 30 ll) satın aldım, ayrıca müzik için ASIO ve foobar kullanıyorum. Sonuçlar:
Ses kalitesinde BÜYÜK bir gelişme - Gece gündüz! Yani artık STX sadece YouTube videoları izlemek vb. için kullanılacak.
Amir'in STX ll incelemesindeki tavsiyesini aktaralım:

Sonuç olarak, paranızı harici DAC'lara harcamanız konusunda güçlü tavsiyem devam ediyor. USB arayüzü

Benim de tavsiyem bu.
İyi şanlar.

Yes, I tried Maxtech drivers and found them really successful. Anker Q30 headphones have high sound power at 600ohms and with the equalizer, they have outputs that are strong enough to damage the ear. In my research, I saw that the topping d30 ll was very successful, of course, but since it did not have a bluetooth feature, I preferred the fiio bta30pro. I also play my music albums with foobar or roon and use asio or wasapi. The USB interface is good, but stability problems may occur between 2.0 and 3.0. For example, it supports DAC 2.0, but there is no port other than USB 3.0 on my computer. How can we?


It works but is not stable.

 

[threni]

We apologize for the translation error.

Did you not notice that a couple of people including a moderator have asked you politely several times to post only in English? Any particular reason you feel that you're above the rules here?

 

[DreaminquE]

Did you not notice that a couple of people including a moderator have asked you to post only in English? Any particular reason you feel that you're above the rules here?

Does it matter if the quote is worded differently? As a result, does everyone know what their comment was?

 

[olieb]

Does it matter if the quote is worded differently?

Yes

 

[threni]

Does it matter if the quote is worded differently? As a result, does everyone know what their comment was?

Clearly it matters because that's what you've been doing from the start and that's what the requests to post in English were about. How do you word a quote differently, btw? You do know what a quote is, right? You literally translated and quoted @Jimbob54's request to write English into another language and posted it! If you believe that's allowed then what do you believe he was complaining about?