Serious Question: How can Op Amp rolling improve the sound of an already well measuring device? Are that many confused? (Master Thread)

[hoovey]

That would be hard to tell without measuring equipment, they copies could work just fine or they could be worse . Who knows ?
Most copying is done to skirt licensing money and lowering other costs how bad is the copy ? And there is also licensed clones that should be as good as original ? Many older components has had several different manufacturers over the years without it being anything wrong .

If there is little money involved you could do it for piece of mind ?

But then again it probably takes some skill to weed what’s different batches from different manufacturers of the same OP amp and what’s a counterfeit component ?

You could end up with another set of counterfeit OP amps

it’s also a risk fiddlying with electronic repair when you don’t do it very often, I have not used a soldering iron in 20 years should I have a go ?

Long term avoid brands that put such components in thier products.

Fair enough. I'm assuming that suppliers like Digikey or Mouser would be a good source for genuine op amps but from what I've read there's slight variation between batches of genuine ones too. I guess some, like the NE5532, are not worth cloning since they're so cheap to begin with.

 

[AnalogSteph]

I guess some, like the NE5532, are not worth cloning since they're so cheap to begin with.

Funny thing is, fake 5532s do seem to be a thing. Some cheapie devices with socketed OPAs seem to have shipped with some. I once saw some measurements suggesting that suspected fake 5532s may have been relabeled 4558s or thereabouts. 5532s may not be expensive per se but do still cost some money, and off-brand 4558s in particular can be dirt cheap.

 

[johny_2000]

Funny thing is, fake 5532s do seem to be a thing. Some cheapie devices with socketed OPAs seem to have shipped with some. I once saw some measurements suggesting that suspected fake 5532s may have been relabeled 4558s or thereabouts. 5532s may not be expensive per se but do still cost some money, and off-brand 4558s in particular can be dirt cheap.

That's why I always buy all my critical electronic components from Mouser, DigiKey, Newark. The assurance of authenticity and peace of mind is worth it.

 

[antcollinet]

Does Op-amp Rolling Work?

When I post my last video on review of Douk A5 amplifier, I mentioned that rolling (changing) op-amp ICs in there is fruitless. I got have a dozen comments under that video in youtube asking why so I thought I experiment again with the A5. Note that I have done the same testing with both DACs...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Geert]

Starting at 7:33 in the video, Danny describes the incredible improvement in sound that an op amp swap made

I came here to check if someone already verified the samples Danny made, but someone just posted a comment about it on YouTube. Interesting to see how Danny doesn't understand the effect of differences in volume.

 

[Ropeburn]

I came here to check if someone already verified the samples Danny made, but someone just posted a comment about it on YouTube. Interesting to see how Danny doesn't understand the effect of differences in volume.

View attachment 437232

Danny's nonsense aside for a moment, I wonder where the volume differences come from. Opamps don't determine level/gain on their own; the surrounding circuit does. The opamps themselves have differences in maximum gain, sure, but in any half- and quarter-competent design they're running nowhere near those levels. Especially not in a line-in-line-out circuit.

The obvious suspicion is really sloppy test setup, making it worthless. The worse suspicion is deliberate manipulation to fabricate perceivable differences.

 

[SuicideSquid]

I came here to check if someone already verified the samples Danny made, but someone just posted a comment about it on YouTube. Interesting to see how Danny doesn't understand the effect of differences in volume.

View attachment 437232

I often wonder when people make comments like this (swapping opamp changes "sound stage size, layering, placement, decay structure, harmonics, clarity, etc.") what they think an opamp does.

Seems these folks think it's a magic box filled with tiny elves who are rebuilding the musical performances from scratch for you.

 

[Ropeburn]

I often wonder when people make comments like this (swapping opamp changes "sound stage size, layering, placement, decay structure, harmonics, clarity, etc.") what they think an opamp does.

Seems these folks think it's a magic box filled with tiny elves who are rebuilding the musical performances from scratch for you.

Let's be honest, a Discworld-style gnome operated preamp or whatever would sell like hot cakes. If only for the cute pet factor. Treat them properly and feed them well, and your sound will be sweet and pleasant. If you wanna listen to deathmetal or hardtechno, break out the whip...

 

[oleg87]

I often wonder when people make comments like this (swapping opamp changes "sound stage size, layering, placement, decay structure, harmonics, clarity, etc.") what they think an opamp does.

Seems these folks think it's a magic box filled with tiny elves who are rebuilding the musical performances from scratch for you.

Yeah this seems like a central point of confusion for a lot of folks. An op-amp's "perspective" on music is extremely limited - it does not know the future, it does not know the past (beyond the tiny bit of "memory" of the various circuit capacitances/inductances), it cannot operate on musical "layers", it has no concept of sound or stage thereof, it senses some instantaneous input signal and is compelled to wiggle its output. You could argue that it could interfere with your brain's ability to perform more sophisticated processing, but it can only do this through pretty mundane mechanisms that I've never found to have such effects when artificially added.

 

[Geert]

came here to check if someone already verified the samples Danny made, but someone just posted a comment about it on YouTube. Interesting to see how Danny doesn't understand the effect of differences in volume.

Since we love to have our facts straight I checked myself (a bit handicapped working on a Linux PC with only Audaciity installed). The 3 recordings available on Danny's video, start of the tracks perfectly aligned. You can even see the left channel of the 3th track clipping just by looking at the waveform:

 

[Geert]

And the 3th track is clipping hard:

 

[Ropeburn]

And the 3th track is clipping hard:

View attachment 437243

LOL. To be fair: that sounds a lot less bad than it looks, and merely creates a hint of overtones (=distortion). Could very well be mistaken as "air" or "stage". Slightly overdriving a signal for that purpose is a staple technique in music production.

Still very bad practice for this purpose. Danny should be ashamed, especially as a so called audio expert.

 

[antcollinet]

Let's be honest, a Discworld-style gnome operated preamp or whatever would sell like hot cakes. If only for the cute pet factor. Treat them properly and feed them well, and your sound will be sweet and pleasant. If you wanna listen to deathmetal or hardtechno, break out the whip...

 

[Count Arthur]

View attachment 437249

A discrete gnome-amp?

 

[BDWoody]

A discrete gnome-amp?

I'm thinking Tardigrades are just the ticket. Probably last forever.

 

[SuicideSquid]

I'm thinking Tardigrades are just the ticket. Probably last forever.

My amplifier is driven by extra-dimensional machine elves who are able to operate the amplifier at all points in time simultaneously.

You get the most expansive soundstage that way.

 

[antcollinet]

My amplifier is driven by extra-dimensional machine elves who are able to operate the amplifier at all points in time simultaneously.

You get the most expansive soundstage that way.

You also get to hear the music before it is written.

 

[xray]

You also get to hear the music before it is written.

Yes, it can also channel dead composers and performers so you hear it as it was meant to be.

 

[Jon L]

Since we love to have our facts straight I checked myself (a bit handicapped working on a Linux PC with only Audaciity installed). The 3 recordings available on Danny's video, start of the tracks perfectly aligned. You can even see the left channel of the 3th track clipping just by looking at the waveform:

View attachment 437238

Do the numbers x1 x2 x3 on left side correspond to Danny's samples 1.wav 2.wav 3.wav?

 

[Geert]

Do the numbers x1 x2 x3 on left side correspond to Danny's samples 1.wav 2.wav 3.wav?

Yes indeed.