Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

[solderdude]

aren't we all ?

On a more constructive note... what does fairly similar measuring DACs sound different and how would you go about and prove that ?
What would be the method(s) used ?

 

[BDWoody]

...cars don`t reliably drive themselves yet for a reason

Hard to know how to argue with that...

 

[Jimbob54]

correct. although id openly admit I am one

What I haven't figured out over the past couple of pages is what your actual assertion is. Is it:
1. DACs can sound different even if they measure the same ?
2. Science doesn't know everything?
3. The majority of people who have engaged with you on this thread know no more than you and aren't qualified to opine?

 

[scott wurcer]

finally a sensible post. you are probably correct. by unless the enthusiast `experts` on here happen to work on dac`s or whatever hifi equipment for a living. well lets say I simply don`t take their word for gospel. nor should anyone else

Some of them do. Some of the recent posts seem to insinuate that measurement science will catch up with what people claim to hear. I would say those claims would need substance first.

 

[1roger]

What I haven't figured out over the past couple of pages is what your actual assertion is. Is it:
1. DACs can sound different even if they measure the same ?
2. Science doesn't know everything?
3. The majority of people who have engaged with you on this thread know no more than you and aren't qualified to opine?

it got a little out of hand which is not ideal. but my only initial point was the eagerness on here to blatantly reject anything that doesn`t have a graph or number attached to it. as said I believe measurement are a fantastic tool

 

[nugget]

. . .blatantly reject anything that doesn`t have a graph or number attached to it. as said I believe measurement are a fantastic tool

Not one single poster here has suggested anything like this.

What people are asking for is a valid demonstration that you can hear a difference. Until someone does that, there's no real need to pursue the subject further. No measurements, no graphs. We don't even need a theory about why or how. We just need a reason to believe the reports are something more than the well-understood confounding influence of expectation bias.

Isn't it a bit suspicious that in all the years this conversation has flourished that not one single person or organization has ever provided this?

 

[Jimbob54]

Not one single poster here has suggested anything like this.

What people are asking for is a valid demonstration that you can hear a difference. Until someone does that, there's no real need to pursue the subject further. No measurements, no no graphs. We don't even need a theory about why or how. We just need a reason to believe the reports are something more than the well-understood confounding influence of expectation bias.

Isn't it a bit suspicious that in all the years this conversation has flourished that not one single person or organization has ever provided this?

Exactly this. Give the scientists and those with the knowledge and kit something to investigate.

"a statistically significant proportion of subjects in a well conducted, scientifically robust test preferred the sound of A to B where both measured the same" might be worth looking at.

 

[Robin L]

Why there's so much car analogies in the audio world?

"Status-Back Baybeeeeeee, oooh yeah!".

 

[1roger]

Not one single poster here has suggested anything like this

well I have to somewhat disagree with that one.. already apparant from page one. some people should be more humble of what the reality is. they pass on their own experiences and what they have been learned by other posters as truly factual. is it not arrogant to state we know everything there is worth knowing? individuals who have done this in the past have almost always been proven wrong at a later point. in `every` conceivable field

"What people are asking for is a valid demonstration that you can hear a difference. Until someone does that, there's no real need to pursue the subject further. No measurements, no graphs. We don't even need a theory about why or how"

then ask yourself what is the point of an audio related comment section. do you believe a measurement tell the whole story of a speaker as well

 

[nugget]

do you believe a measurement tell the whole story of a speaker as well

Not one single poster here has suggested anything like this, either.

 

[Julf]

well I have to somewhat disagree with that one..

Your opinion is noted. It seems to be based on subjective perception that is not very closely coupled to reality.

some people should be more humble of what the reality is.

So how about starting by recognizing that your subjective perception is not reality?

do you believe a measurement tell the whole story of a speaker as well

Again a nice straw man. You seem to like them.

 

[SIY]

well I have to somewhat disagree with that one.. already apparant from page one. some people should be more humble of what the reality is. they pass on their own experiences and what they have been learned by other posters as truly factual. is it not arrogant to state we know everything there is worth knowing? individuals who have done this in the past have almost always been proven wrong at a later point. in `every` conceivable field

"What people are asking for is a valid demonstration that you can hear a difference. Until someone does that, there's no real need to pursue the subject further. No measurements, no graphs. We don't even need a theory about why or how"

then ask yourself what is the point of an audio related comment section. do you believe a measurement tell the whole story of a speaker as well

Let's have a contest to see how many false statements and non sequiturs are packed into one single post.

At this point, it seems hardly worthwhile to feed it.

 

[Jimbob54]

well I have to somewhat disagree with that one.. already apparant from page one. some people should be more humble of what the reality is. they pass on their own experiences and what they have been learned by other posters as truly factual. is it not arrogant to state we know everything there is worth knowing? individuals who have done this in the past have almost always been proven wrong at a later point. in `every` conceivable field

"What people are asking for is a valid demonstration that you can hear a difference. Until someone does that, there's no real need to pursue the subject further. No measurements, no graphs. We don't even need a theory about why or how"

then ask yourself what is the point of an audio related comment section. do you believe a measurement tell the whole story of a speaker as well

You tell me which post # those sentences you quote comes from or I suspect you will be asked to tell your story walking.

 

[BDWoody]

is it not arrogant to state we know everything there is worth knowing?

It would be if anyone said that. Sticking to new physics that hasn't been discovered quite yet as the explanation for what you are hearing, and ignoring basic psychoacoustics to avoid the terrifying thought of going through a controlled listening process, won't get very far.

Identify a difference under those conditions, and you'll get a very different response.

 

[1roger]

Let's have a contest to see how many false statements and non sequiturs are packed into one single post.

At this point, it seems hardly worthwhile to feed it.

do you believe using words like `non sequiturs` make you appear more intelligent

 

[1roger]

Let's have a contest

go at it dimwit^^

 

[1roger]

It would be if anyone said that

again.. read the first two pages in this thread

 

[nugget]

again.. read the first two pages in this thread

If the facts were on your side it would be so easy to win this argument. Wouldn't it have been fun if you had been able to do that instead of just calling people names and deflecting? How tragic for your position that this was the only direction you could go with it.

 

[amirm]

go at it dimwit^^

Watch it. This is not how we interact in this forum.

 

[BDWoody]

At this point, it seems hardly worthwhile to feed it.

I think I'll go with that...