I think is due to too much output strength so you should loose some bits, and they exist also poor quality DACs.All dacs do sound the same maybe
But play ancient highway by van Morrison
Some cd players /dacs make a real mess of this track can someone explain that?
You first have to demonstrate that it is actually the DAC making a mess of it (assuming you have verified that there is, in fact, a mess being made), via a properly controlled test (or measurement). Probably easiest by recording the output of the DAC in question, and then doing a null comparison in deltawave.All dacs do sound the same maybe
But play ancient highway by van Morrison
Some cd players /dacs make a real mess of this track can someone explain that?
Yep - that is a situation where i'd be putting a passive attenuator on the input to the amp (active speaker in this case). But bear in mind - this is only about noise, not distortion or frequency response. The differences you are describing as hearing are not noise.To listen at a reasonable 70 dB SPL at 1 m I have to decrease by 50 dBFS the DAC which has balanced outputs 4 Vrms.
What do you mean by "mess"? I just checked and my HomePods in the kitchen do not make a mess of it. At least not to me.Some cd players /dacs make a real mess of this track....?
Excuse me by bothering you with the same topic, but actually I’m listening to Dire Straits great songs with the lowest gain and the highest digital values I can reach reasonably: 86 dB @ 1 V rms and WiiM Ultra limited to 1 Vrms so I operate on the -20 dBFS range.There is nothing in that paper that isn't already pretty well understood around here.
The point you are missing, is that you can completely skip that calculation in many cases, simply because the noise and distortion produced by the devices in question are so low as to be completely inaudible - even after passing through subsequent gain stages**. Especially when listening to music - and even more especially when listening via speakers.
This is certainly the case for the DACs under discussion in this particular subthread.
**Always assuming, of course, you are not doing something really stupid with them such as 60dB of digital attenuation compensated further down the chain by 60dB of extra gain. This would fall under the category of "working hard to screw it up"
Regardless of how complex the mix is, to the DAC it's still just voltage varying with time. Suspect there's another reason there.Hi I have a d300 smsl and very happy with it
I mentioned this particular track
As near the end the mix of instruments gets so complex
Some cd /dacs I have had seem to make sense it
Just to say the d300 is the best I have heard untangling this track
I know it's not scientific but very audible
I think is not necessary now, but I will consider.Yep - that is a situation where i'd be putting a passive attenuator on the input to the amp (active speaker in this case). But bear in mind - this is only about noise, not distortion or frequency response. The differences you are describing as hearing are not noise.
I'd probably be comfortable with a digital attenuation of up to about 35-40dB to get down to a 'normal' listening level. But even at the 50dB digital attenuation in your example, I think it most likely that the DAC noise of a good performing DAC would still be inaudible at the listening position in most rooms.
For example if your DAC has an SNR of 115dB (quite common), then with 50dB of digital attenuation, you would still have SNR of 65dB. If your listening level is 70dB SPL, then the DAC noise is going to be down at only 5dB SPL - well below the 30 dB noise floor in a typical room.
Nothing there I wouldn't expect. I think 99% of the audiophilliac hand wringing about sound quality of modern electronics is utterly pointless.Excuse me by bothering you with the same topic, but actually I’m listening to Dire Straits great songs with the lowest gain and the highest digital values I can reach reasonably: 86 dB @ 1 V rms and WiiM Ultra limited to 1 Vrms so I operate on the -20 dBFS range.
And it sounds phenomenal, I know “phenomenal” is mot scientific, but since is free tax to adjust my gear as I want, I can let me to be somewhat irrational and enjoying the balanced clean sound from my speakers![]()
To find out.I think is not necessary now, but I will consider.
I love that personally. Especially if you can get them round for a listen and they're blown away. You can actually see them trying to reconcile everything they think they know with what they are hearing.Many so called audiophiles at other places would tell me my system is garbage. Or "Mid Fi" at best. I would happily continue listening to my music, knowing they are idiots.
Humm, difficult to evaluate, Genelecs show “hiss” in all of the 80xx lineup whatever the signal strength or the input gain,To find out.
Try it with digital attenuation. Can you hear noise (hiss) at your listening position during periods of silence in the music?
If not - you are golden.
If you can, is the noise loud enough to bother you when listening to music.
If not you are fine.
If it does, consider passive attenuators connected at the input to the amp (not at the output of the DAC).
Sweet baby jebus!he reckoned I must just have really clean mains power.
Let me modify slightly.Humm, difficult to evaluate, Genelecs show “hiss” in all of the 80xx lineup whatever the signal strength or the input gain,
I don’t know why, doesn’t bother me so much, but seem independent of the input.
Actually sound very good with the 1V output and the -10 dB sensitivity adjustment. It looks a little bit limit when listening low quality classical music that tend to be recorder at low volumes so I push the DAC near 95% volume.
But since I’m using only one speaker and waiting for the other, it will be ok when raising those 3 to 6 dB adding a second source
Try it with digital attenuation.Can you hear noise (hiss)Does the hiss at your listening position during periods of silence in the music get no worse?
No hiss at all at actual levels, but a lot of it when trying high gain combinations.Let me modify slightly.
Part right. Quantisation errors can be distortion (but not harmonic distortion - so not a part of THD), but when properly dithered as part of the quantisation process it is effectively converted to noise, similar to tape hiss, but at inaudible levelsTHD came also from quantization errors or am I wrong?
My first introduction to this wake-up call, came in the mid 90s when I heard a variety of known and unknown speakers at wildly different price points, sound equally excellent. The room (a converted tandem-garage) had been very carefully set up by a pro acoustician - and it showed, the speakers in a more 'live' end and the listener in the more 'treated' end, as heard in a concert hall. In this room, it worked a treat!!! For our UK readers, I'd NEVER heard Heybrook HB1s sound so good - and I'd done countless dems and sales of this model, from sweeter-toned first launch versions to the final and rather more 'spiteful' late production (I gather they had to change the bass-mid driver in production).I love that personally. Especially if you can get them round for a listen and they're blown away. You can actually see them trying to reconcile everything they think they know with what they are hearing.
I said to one 'It's just good speakers in a good acoustic, that's the whole thing.' But no dice, he reckoned I must just have really clean mains power. Horse at water, still no drinky.
I went to the water a few times and refused to take a drink.My first introduction to this wake-up call, came in the mid 90s when I heard a variety of known and unknown speakers at wildly different price points, sound equally excellent. The room (a converted tandem-garage) had been very carefully set up by a pro acoustician - and it showed, the speakers in a more 'live' end and the listener in the more 'treated' end, as heard in a concert hall. In this room, it worked a treat!!! For our UK readers, I'd NEVER heard Heybrook HB1s sound so good - and I'd done countless dems and sales of this model, from sweeter-toned first launch versions to the final and rather more 'spiteful' late production (I gather they had to change the bass-mid driver in production).