Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

[zajogungster]

Misspeak? I don’t understand how educated people can turn their back on a mountain of research and tests, and keep insisting they can hear things that have been shown, again and again, to be inaudible.

measure a tone of 1000 or a multitone of 12k at an ideal OHM load, a non-musical signal, or just something similar to it ... if the measuring devices will be perfect, like the sound itself, then we can talk about who turns his back on some research and measurements ! the image and graphics are nothing compared to reality.

 

[SIY]

measure a tone of 1000 or a multitone of 12k at an ideal OHM load, a non-musical signal, or just something similar to it ... if the measuring devices will be perfect, like the sound itself, then we can talk about who turns his back on some research and measurements ! the image and graphics are nothing compared to

This is very unclear. Could you please reword it?

 

[fpitas]

This is very unclear. Could you please reword it?

I bet it's that ASR only listens to test tones and dummy loads. Something just seems familiar in the refrain.

 

[fpitas]

measure a tone of 1000 or a multitone of 12k at an ideal OHM load, a non-musical signal, or just something similar to it ... if the measuring devices will be perfect, like the sound itself, then we can talk about who turns his back on some research and measurements ! the image and graphics are nothing compared to reality.

Uh huh

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

I tried it again.. and yes you are right.. it does sound good.. have to crank my amp very high though…

This is the classic "reverse strawfire" effect.

The output from the dongle is 6 - 12dB (with EU mandated "herring protection" [pun intentional]), much less than from a standard line out.

Without fully compensating the level difference, any comparison to a normal line out will result in a strong "bad sound" reaction, or the reverse, the louder source is percieved as much better.

That is why formal level matching is critical, even for sighted auditions.

Thor

 

[zajogungster]

This is very unclear. Could you please reword it?

and don't forget something quite important! when you measure something, there are always many different ways and unfortunately the result is always affected by the measurement itself!
and even the most objective objectivity is always only subjective! that is, what you measure and see, you can implement differently than someone else, even though you have the same graph! the breadth of knowledge is never the same for everyone

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Don't believe everything you read on ASR. It is not, nor will ever be, the font of all knowledge when it comes to high fidelity reproduction equipment.

Hear, hear.

I agree. Nor are the Subjectivist forums a reliable source of information. Both have parts of the complete picture AND even combining both, the picture is incomplete.

Thor

 

[fpitas]

and don't forget something quite important! when you measure something, there are always many different ways and unfortunately the result is always affected by the measurement itself!
and even the most objective objectivity is always only subjective! that is, what you measure and see, you can implement differently than someone else, even though you have the same graph! the breadth of knowledge is never the same for everyone

That was indeed reworded. Unfortunately, it is even more obscure than the previous post.

 

[Sokel]

measure a tone of 1000 or a multitone of 12k at an ideal OHM load, a non-musical signal, or just something similar to it ... if the measuring devices will be perfect, like the sound itself, then we can talk about who turns his back on some research and measurements ! the image and graphics are nothing compared to reality.

If I understood correctly:
Are 984 tones enough on an 13 yo DAC or you want more?

(note the 512K FFT for better resolution)

 

[zajogungster]

Uh huh

I know, maybe I look like I'm on the "hifi ear" side
but no, I'm an absolute supporter of not getting hurt, but I don't like unequivocal truths and principled people! It is necessary to figure out how to refine the measurements and how to meet what we hear. Because our hearing gave a clue to all this, but not the measuring microphone

 

[zajogungster]

If I understood correctly:
Are 984 tones enough on an 13 yo DAC or you want more?

(note the 512K FFT for better resolution)

View attachment 261083

no, i didn't mean it literally. There are a huge number of variables in measurements alone, and even more options for how and what to measure! getting any absolute truth is out of the question! therefore, it is possible to constantly improve and advance, and therefore it is then also audible!

 

[fpitas]

I know, maybe I look like I'm on the "hifi ear" side
but no, I'm an absolute supporter of not getting hurt, but I don't like unequivocal truths and principled people! It is necessary to figure out how to refine the measurements and how to meet what we hear. Because our hearing gave a clue to all this, but not the measuring microphone

Sokel showed you a multitone test above. Is that good enough?

Edit: I guess not.

 

[Sokel]

no, i didn't mean it literally. There are a huge number of variables in measurements alone, and even more options for how and what to measure! getting any absolute truth is out of the question! therefore, it is possible to constantly improve and advance, and therefore it is then also audible!

I'm sure I can measure pretty much everything you like,just say it.

 

[fpitas]

I'm sure I can measure pretty much everything you like,just say it.

I'm going out on a limb here. But I bet no matter how much you measure, it won't be good enough

 

[zajogungster]

I'm sure I can measure pretty much everything you like,just say it.

congratulations! good to know

 

[Sokel]

I'm going out on a limb here. But I bet no matter how much you measure, it won't be good enough

Call me suspicious but I have the same feeling.

 

[fpitas]

I think we're back to the mysterious X Factor lurking inside every audio waveform. Defying measurement and physics, and common sense.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I know, maybe I look like I'm on the "hifi ear" side
but no, I'm an absolute supporter of not getting hurt, but I don't like unequivocal truths and principled people! It is necessary to figure out how to refine the measurements and how to meet what we hear. Because our hearing gave a clue to all this, but not the measuring microphone

I suspect English might not be your native language. And that is okay nothing to worry about. However your posts are hard to understand. Maybe supplement them with some examples of what you have in mind and we can figure out what you are saying to us.

 

[zajogungster]

Call me suspicious but I have the same feeling.

great, so an ordinary multimeter is enough for me, why buy expensive and better and even better measuring devices. I can always use what I show as a fact!

 

[Sokel]

great, so an ordinary multimeter is enough for me, why buy expensive and better and even better measuring devices. I can always use what I show as a fact!

Yes,even a cheap multimeter and a calculator can show you lots and lots of things if you have the patience.
But you don't need to spend much if you like something serious to measure things,get a nice Cosmos rig,a clean dac,install someting like you saw on my post and you are good to go and decide for yourself.