• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

Ze Frog

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2024
Messages
357
Likes
279
Without a proper blind test, you can never be sure if the differences you hear are not products of bias from your brain.
Could very well be so, despite seeming quite convincing. I've never blind tested either, so can't give any particular evidence for my leaning. With speakers using domes I can't really distinguish, I know that much.

Wonder if there's a way waiting to be found where a computer program could maybe define this at some point. I'm guessing it's kind of like speaker sound power, as in something can be flat yet have a different way of providing the same result and sound rather different.
 

Doodski

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
20,750
Likes
20,760
Location
Canada
I prefer ESS chips over AKM, for my ears the ESS has a somehow more vivid upper midrange and treble sound that seems more etched somehow.
I appreciate the more anylitical sound, not exaggerated or glassy perse, but some nice energy going on in the upper ranges.
I too prefer a zing in the upper frequencies of my hearing range. So I use parametric EQ for that and it works great. I don't think most people would appreciate my PEQ settings but I do. LoL...
z Screenshot 2023-04-08 230137.png
 

DSJR

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
3,314
Likes
4,427
Location
Suffolk Coastal, UK
523-Wadax_System-600.jpg


"There were several reasons why I was extremely eager to hear this system. First and foremost, given the high price of Wadax digital gear, I wanted to get a sense of what the Wadax Atlantis Reference DAC ($166,420), Wadax Atlantis Reference Server ($68,800), Wadax Atlantis Reference Transport $115,000), and Wadax Atlantis Reference PSU ($52,700) might sound like"

Yeah , i don't see this stuff ending up at Amir's place anytime soon, but you never know;)

Oh, and there were also 4 cables used, 20.400$ each, which lifted the final veils.
Assuming that shrine was an owners rig, I'd expect them (him most probably) to offer human sacrifices to it... Gawd that rig looks awful, but can't see the grounding box...
 

gwing

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2022
Messages
21
Likes
28
Without a proper blind test, you can never be sure if the differences you hear are not products of bias from your brain.

A blind test would be best but not entirely essential as long as you really can eliminate bias and expectations. The only occasion I can think where that would have been the case for me though was when I bought of bunch of small cheap 'Direct Digital' desktop amps to see what all the fuss was about. - so I had four amps at vaguely similar prices, similar sizes and apparent build quality and no expectations on which (if any) would be any good or better than the others. In virtually all other circumstances I'd go along with the necessity for a truly blind test though.
 

Killingbeans

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
4,089
Likes
7,547
Location
Bjerringbro, Denmark.
A blind test would be best but not entirely essential as long as you really can eliminate bias and expectations.

You can't eliminate bias without a blind test, and your conscious expectations have no control over your subconscious ones.

A blind test is only non-essential when the reliability of the test results is equally non-essential.
 

DonR

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
2,971
Likes
5,615
Location
Vancouver(ish)
A blind test would be best but not entirely essential as long as you really can eliminate bias and expectations. The only occasion I can think where that would have been the case for me though was when I bought of bunch of small cheap 'Direct Digital' desktop amps to see what all the fuss was about. - so I had four amps at vaguely similar prices, similar sizes and apparent build quality and no expectations on which (if any) would be any good or better than the others. In virtually all other circumstances I'd go along with the necessity for a truly blind test though.
The thing about bias is that it can very well and often is subconscious. We don't even know it is there so any preconceived expectations or lack thereof may not even affect the actual bias.
 

ahofer

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
4,952
Likes
8,698
Location
New York City
A blind test would be best but not entirely essential as long as you really can eliminate bias and expectations. T
..and the only way we know how to do this for sure is a blind test.
 

CedarX

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Messages
409
Likes
622
Location
USA
I too prefer a zing in the upper frequencies of my hearing range. So I use parametric EQ for that and it works great. I don't think most people would appreciate my PEQ settings but I do. LoL...
index.php

That's almost +30dB at 16kHz !!! :eek::eek::eek:
I am at an age where I don't hear much there anyway... which picked my curiosity: is your EQ "upper zing" the result of a measurable preference--i.e. if you were to do a controlled blind test comparison between your +29.5 dB at 16kHz and say +25dB, would your preference always go for +29.5dB? Or is it more a threshold thing--i.e. you need about ~25-30dB boost at 16kHz to hear anything there? Is the 0dB at 20kHz because it does not make any measurable difference for you?

BTW, I totally respect your EQ... But have you found a speaker, headphones, or IEM with this type of FR? ;)
I think we'll all agree that there ain't any DAC with this type of "signature"... So, although the discussions are always interesting, this thread may largely be irrelevant for you in the end as it is for me... :p
 

Doodski

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
20,750
Likes
20,760
Location
Canada
That's almost +30dB at 16kHz !!! :eek::eek::eek:
I am at an age where I don't hear much there anyway... which picked my curiosity: is your EQ "upper zing" the result of a measurable preference--i.e. if you were to do a controlled blind test comparison between your +29.5 dB at 16kHz and say +25dB, would your preference always go for +29.5dB? Or is it more a threshold thing--i.e. you need about ~25-30dB boost at 16kHz to hear anything there? Is the 0dB at 20kHz because it does not make any measurable difference for you?
I need that much boost to get the highs audible and interesting too. I like a live kinda sound where the cymbals and such really sound metallic. 20kHz is totally inaudible for me so no sense boosting there I think. The same at the low bass frequencies I don't boost. I negative the low frequency energy to prevent the audio amp loading and the added load on the headphones. If they can even do that stuff.
BTW, I totally respect your EQ... But have you found a speaker, headphones, or IEM with this type of FR? ;)
I think we'll all agree that there ain't any DAC with this type of "signature"... So, although the discussions are always interesting, this thread may largely be irrelevant for you in the end as it is for me... :p
I have used this type of high frequency boost since a young age and even more if my ears are full of wax. The premise of my PEQ shows that a tiny bit of upper frequency or mids can create a sense of warmth, sharpness etc.
 
Top Bottom