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What sequence do you suggest when turning an audio system on and off?
And how important do you think this is?
The usual suggestion I see is:
Turning a system on:
Source—> Preamp —> Amplifiers
Turning system off (just reverse sequence):
Amplifiers —> Preamp —> Source
If this is what you subscribe to… what’s the reasoning? (I remember some people talking about avoiding power “thumps” to the speaker). And do you make sure to follow any particular sequence yourself?
Also: is the sequence just as important whether you’re dealing with tube amplification or solid state amplification?
I’ve long used mostly tube amplification, pre and power, and for all these years, haven’t really paid attention in terms of the sequence of turning it on. I think usually I’ve actually turned my CJ tube monoblocks on first, then the pre-amplifier.
I don’t remember hearing any thumps coming through the speakers. Nor has this caused any issues. (as far as I know)
For the heck of it, I’ve started to turn my system off in the “ approved” way above, eg if if I’m going to listen to a record; phono stage on, preamps (my CJ tube preamp is run through my Benchmark preamp), tube amps. (If I’m listening to my digital source, my DAC is always on).
I use the "usual suggested" sequence when turning on and off my tube preamp and tube power amps because the preamp doesn't have muting relays. I've turned them on out of this sequence and while it did not do any damage the sound is not pleasant. With my solid state Hypex power amp and RME DAC input the sequence doesn't matter although I normally turn on the source and DAC first and then the power amp.
Switch-on thumps and such are a thing of the past, since I switched to active speakers. I mostly turn on the source first, then the DAC/preamp, and then the speakers*, but for no particular reason, really. Nothing bad would happen if I did it in the opposite order. Theoretically it is safer to turn the DAC/preamp first, to see if it's at the right volume setting, but "spontaneous" unattenuated operation never happened to me so far.
*except for the JBL in the living room, which turn on themselves, thanks to auto standby.
There can be voltage (bias) changes as internal circuits power on and off, and these can lead to offsets and signal glitches that cause thumps, squeals, and other annoying and sometimes dangerous sounds. Not usually dangerous to the listener, but loud thumps can degrade speakers. Because power amps are most affected since everything "upstream" gets amplified on the way to the speakers, the recommended sequence is to allow everything else to settle before the power amp(s) is(are) turned on, and to allow the power amp(s) to "bleed off" and go silent with no power before turning off the rest of the components. IIRC, Amir @amirm usually notes in his reviews if there are on/off issues with the equipment he tests.
I have had numerous multi-amped systems over the decades. Some of these systems were based on pro audio gear. Many of these systems had extremely high sensitivity drivers directly connected to powerful power amplifiers.
In these more complicated systems the power on and off sequences are absolutely critical. Decades ago when I couldn't afford a commercial power sequencer I built a power strip with individual toggle switches which allowed me to manually power sequence the gear... more recently I used a large Furman sequencer that I programmed with the correct amount of delay between each stage so that the equipment could stabilize or fully discharge before the next sequence with the final element powering off being the cooling fans. In addition to protecting the equipment, the delicate loudspeakers and my delicate ears, the sequencing also prevented tripping circuit breakers which would have occurred had I thrown everything on at once.
Having a pair of D&D 8Cs running Roon is so much simpler. ;-)
In the bottom portion of my lengthy post #931 on my thread of multichannel multi-amplifier full-active audio project, I shared my start-up/ignition sequences and shutdown sequences as follows under the below spoiler cover;
The latest "startup/ignition sequences" and "shutdown sequences" as of June 26, 2024 Having the latest system configuration as of June 26 in 2024 shared above, I also would like to update my post #776 dated August 7 2023 on “Startup/Ignition Sequences” and “Shutdown Sequencies”.
A few of my dear ASR friends have contacted me asking about standard startup/ignition sequences and shutdown sequences in the multichannel multi-amplifier system together with JRiver MC (or Roon) and software crossover EKIO running on Windows 11 PC.
They were a little bit concerned about the maximum protection of speaker drivers from possible unexpected accidental pop damage, and I fully understand their worries even though I have the protection capacitors for midrange Beryllium-dome-squawkers (MDs), Beryllium-dome-tweeters (TWs) and metal-horn-super-tweeters (STs).
Although I daily perform these very familiar (to me) sequences almost unconsciously, I believe it would be worthwhile sharing the sequences with all of you visiting this thread.
Standard "Startup/Ignition Sequences": 01. Wake-up the ACCircuit Breaker (100V/15A if it has been shut-down) 02. Power-on the root switch of 24-port AC power strip (series of four 6-port strips)
______This automatically wakes up DIY-12-VU-Meter-Array, KORG DS-DAC-10, BEHRINGER DS2800
03. Power-on YAMAHA A-S3000 after making sure the volume is at -infinity dB (no sound) 04. Power-on ACCUPHASE E-460 after making sure the volume is at -infinity dB (no sound) 05. Power-on SONY TA-A1ES after making sure the volume is at -infinity dB (no sound) 06. Power-on YAMAHA A-S301 after making sure the volume is at -infinity dB (no sound) 07. Power-on L&R sub-woofers YAMAHA YST-SW1000 by remote controller (preset volume 13:00 O'clock, 1 p.m.) 08. Power-on OKTO DAC8PRO; make sure the volume (master gain) is less than -75 dB 09. Power-on Windows 11 Pro PC
10. Check & confirm wake-up and running of VB-AUDIO MATRIX at taskbar 11. Check & confirm wake-up and ready of DIYINHK ASIO at taskbar 12. Check & confirm all the Window's sound I/O (KERNEL, WASAPI, WMD, Mic, etc.) are muted-off 13. Launch DSP EKIO having default preset configuration 14. Launch JRiver MC (or Roon); make sure the master volume is at about 5 % (-77.5 dB) 15. Properly layout VB-AUDIO MATRIX, its Routing Grid view, JRiver MC32 and EKIO’s I/O Panel on PC monitor screen so that all the peak bar-meters can be seen/monitored (as shown in Fig.15) 16. Start playing JRivere.g. the 6th track of my music sampler/reference playlist (piano solo) 17. Slightly volume-up JRiver to around 10 % (-55.0 dB); check the JRiver's small VU-EQ meter is properly dancing 18. Start “playing” EKIO
19. Check and confirm that all the EKIO's I/O VU meter bars and all the VB-AUDIO MATRIX Routing Grid VU meter bars are properly moving in exceptionally low gain 20. Volume-up A-S3000 to 11:55 o'clock (-18 dB) 21. Volume-up E-460 to -19.0 dB 22. Volume-up TA-A1ES to -17.0 dB 23. Volume-up A-S301 to 09:45 o'clock (ca. -19 dB) 24. Volume-up DAC8PRO to -4 dB; check to properly hear the sound in small volume 25. Carefully and slowly volume-up JRiver MC (as master volume) to usual listening volume using mouse wheel or COOIDEA USB volume controller
Standard "Shutdown Sequences": 01. Stop playing JRiver MC
02. Volume-down the "Master Volume" of JRiver MC to less than 5% (-77.5 dB) 03. Stop playing DSP EKIO
04. Volume-down OKTO DAC8PRO to -99 dB 05. Volume-down YAMAHA A-S301 to -infinity dB (no sound) 06. Volume-down SONY TA-A1ES to -infinity dB (no sound) 07. Volume-down ACCUPHASE E-460 to -infinity dB (no sound) 08. Volume-down YAMAHA A-S3000 to -infinity dB (no sound) 09. Power-off A-S301
10. Power-off TA-A1ES
11. Power-off E-460
12. Power-off A-S3000
13. Power-off L and R active sub-woofers YAMAHA YST-SW1000 by remote controller 14. Exit/Shutdown JRiver MC
15. Exit/Shutdown EKIO
16. Shutdown VB-AUDIO MATRIX
17. Shutdown Windows 11 Pro PC
18. Soft-shutdown (Mute-off) OKTO DAC8PRO by remote controller 19. Switch-off the root switch of 24-port AC power strip (series of four 6-port strips)
______This automatically shutdowns DIY-12-VU-Meter-Array, KORG DS-DAC-10, BEHRINGER DS2800
20. Down the ACCircuit Breaker (100V/15 A, if needed for prolonged shutdown; longer than a week or so)
Although these sequences may look somewhat complicated at your first glance, I usually complete the startup/ignition sequences in less than 3 minutes, and I complete the shutdown sequences in less than 1 minute. I believe you can agree with me that triggered simultaneous startup/power-on with pre-fixed audible gain/volume levels should be definitely avoided at least in my multichannel multi-amplifier audio setup.
Furthermore, even though I have protection capacitors for my treasure midrange drivers, tweeters and super-tweeters, the protection capacitors are essentially "transparent" in the specific Fq coverage zones (ref. #976, #1,009).
In the bottom portion of my lengthy post #931 on my thread of multichannel multi-amplifier full-active audio project, I shared my start-up/ignition sequences and shutdown sequences as follows under the below spoiler cover;
The latest "startup/ignition sequences" and "shutdown sequences" as of June 26, 2024 Having the latest system configuration as of June 26 in 2024 shared above, I also would like to update my post #776 dated August 7 2023 on “Startup/Ignition Sequences” and “Shutdown Sequencies”.
A few of my dear ASR friends have contacted me asking about standard startup/ignition sequences and shutdown sequences in the multichannel multi-amplifier system together with JRiver MC (or Roon) and software crossover EKIO running on Windows 11 PC.
They were a little bit concerned about the maximum protection of speaker drivers from possible unexpected accidental pop damage, and I fully understand their worries even though I have the protection capacitors for midrange Beryllium-dome-squawkers (MDs), Beryllium-dome-tweeters (TWs) and metal-horn-super-tweeters (STs).
Although I daily perform these very familiar (to me) sequences almost unconsciously, I believe it would be worthwhile sharing the sequences with all of you visiting this thread.
Standard "Startup/Ignition Sequences": 01. Wake-up the ACCircuit Breaker (100V/15A if it has been shut-down) 02. Power-on the root switch of 24-port AC power strip (series of four 6-port strips)
______This automatically wakes up DIY-12-VU-Meter-Array, KORG DS-DAC-10, BEHRINGER DS2800
03. Power-on YAMAHA A-S3000 after making sure the volume is at -infinity dB (no sound) 04. Power-on ACCUPHASE E-460 after making sure the volume is at -infinity dB (no sound) 05. Power-on SONY TA-A1ES after making sure the volume is at -infinity dB (no sound) 06. Power-on YAMAHA A-S301 after making sure the volume is at -infinity dB (no sound) 07. Power-on L&R sub-woofers YAMAHA YST-SW1000 by remote controller (preset volume 13:00 O'clock, 1 p.m.) 08. Power-on OKTO DAC8PRO; make sure the volume (master gain) is less than -75 dB 09. Power-on Windows 11 Pro PC
10. Check & confirm wake-up and running of VB-AUDIO MATRIX at taskbar 11. Check & confirm wake-up and ready of DIYINHK ASIO at taskbar 12. Check & confirm all the Window's sound I/O (KERNEL, WASAPI, WMD, Mic, etc.) are muted-off 13. Launch DSP EKIO having default preset configuration 14. Launch JRiver MC (or Roon); make sure the master volume is at about 5 % (-77.5 dB) 15. Properly layout VB-AUDIO MATRIX, its Routing Grid view, JRiver MC32 and EKIO’s I/O Panel on PC monitor screen so that all the peak bar-meters can be seen/monitored (as shown in Fig.15) 16. Start playing JRivere.g. the 6th track of my music sampler/reference playlist (piano solo) 17. Slightly volume-up JRiver to around 10 % (-55.0 dB); check the JRiver's small VU-EQ meter is properly dancing 18. Start “playing” EKIO
19. Check and confirm that all the EKIO's I/O VU meter bars and all the VB-AUDIO MATRIX Routing Grid VU meter bars are properly moving in exceptionally low gain 20. Volume-up A-S3000 to 11:55 o'clock (-18 dB) 21. Volume-up E-460 to -19.0 dB 22. Volume-up TA-A1ES to -17.0 dB 23. Volume-up A-S301 to 09:45 o'clock (ca. -19 dB) 24. Volume-up DAC8PRO to -4 dB; check to properly hear the sound in small volume 25. Carefully and slowly volume-up JRiver MC (as master volume) to usual listening volume using mouse wheel or COOIDEA USB volume controller
Standard "Shutdown Sequences": 01. Stop playing JRiver MC
02. Volume-down the "Master Volume" of JRiver MC to less than 5% (-77.5 dB) 03. Stop playing DSP EKIO
04. Volume-down OKTO DAC8PRO to -99 dB 05. Volume-down YAMAHA A-S301 to -infinity dB (no sound) 06. Volume-down SONY TA-A1ES to -infinity dB (no sound) 07. Volume-down ACCUPHASE E-460 to -infinity dB (no sound) 08. Volume-down YAMAHA A-S3000 to -infinity dB (no sound) 09. Power-off A-S301
10. Power-off TA-A1ES
11. Power-off E-460
12. Power-off A-S3000
13. Power-off L and R active sub-woofers YAMAHA YST-SW1000 by remote controller 14. Exit/Shutdown JRiver MC
15. Exit/Shutdown EKIO
16. Shutdown VB-AUDIO MATRIX
17. Shutdown Windows 11 Pro PC
18. Soft-shutdown (Mute-off) OKTO DAC8PRO by remote controller 19. Switch-off the root switch of 24-port AC power strip (series of four 6-port strips)
______This automatically shutdowns DIY-12-VU-Meter-Array, KORG DS-DAC-10, BEHRINGER DS2800
20. Down the ACCircuit Breaker (100V/15 A, if needed for prolonged shutdown; longer than a week or so)
Although these sequences may look somewhat complicated at your first glance, I usually complete the startup/ignition sequences in less than 3 minutes, and I complete the shutdown sequences in less than 1 minute. I believe you can agree with me that triggered simultaneous startup/power-on with pre-fixed audible gain/volume levels should be definitely avoided at least in my multichannel multi-amplifier audio setup.
Furthermore, even though I have protection capacitors for my treasure midrange drivers, tweeters and super-tweeters; the protection capacitors are essentially "transparent" in the specific Fq coverage zones (ref. #976, #1,009).
I press a button on the remote that turns the AVP+AppleTV in the main system, or select an AirPlay speaker in Apple Music (other systems).
In the main system the 12V trigger runs to a power thingy (Panamax brand) turns on the amp outlets, sequenced by a few seconds because of potential inrush (3 amps: 4x600W, 8x600W, 4x1250W).
In the other systems, any downstream amps are either turned on by 12V triggers or signal sensing. No sequencing.
Otherwise, I follow the procedure in the OP. For my cabin setup, this avoids noticeable «thumps» at startup. At home, the Trinnov Nova is always on, but I still follow the procedure with the RME and Nord, although the issue (thumping) does not seem to be as prevalent/marked there.
I’m something of an ignoramus about electricity. I’m not sure why but my brain never fully groks electrical equipment very well.
Since I never noticed any thumping happening when I would turn on my system in anyway, it wasn’t a big deal for me.
Nonetheless, I vaguely went with the idea that if there’s going to be any thumps, it would come from the power amps.
And if I turned on the preamplifiers first then they would be on with the volume sending signal to the speakers, and therefore if I turned on the amplifiers afterwards, and the amplifiers put out a thump, the pre-amplifier would send it along to the speaker.
Therefore, in my mind, it was sort of “ as long as I’m not sending the signal to the speakers with the preamps on, turning on the amps first won’t send a thump to the speakers.”
Obviously…. I got that wrong. Turns out it’s the other way around and it’s the source and pre-amplification that are more likely to send a thump to the speakers, and if the amplifiers are already on then it’s going to be sent to the speakers.
Anyway, I’m now using the “brains to brawn” sequence of turning the system on as outlined in the OP.
When I remarked that this doesn't look user friendly for the whole family I was scolded and told that all, including the kids, are competent to use it unsupervised and indeed do.
When I remarked that this doesn't look user friendly for the whole family I was scolded and told that all, including the kids, are competent to use it unsupervised and indeed do.
Thank you for your kind and encouraging words and comments.
I never concerned about "win" and/or "loose", however, but I just would like to protect/preserve my total audio (-visual) setup ensuring my daily music listening enjoyments.
Of course, I clearly print the sequences on both side of a paper and put it in a clear plastic paper-case placed on the low-table in front of listening sofa for my wife's, son's, daughter's and grandchildren's easy and in-order start-up/ignition and shut down; they can always do them flawlessly.
I always leave everything on and most of my gear is over 30 years old. Never been an issue.
I listen every day, if I was to leave for a long period of time, I might shut it down, but my traveling days are over, leaving my house with my nice sound system does not appeal to me anymore.
Of course, I clearly print the sequences on both side of a paper and put it in a clear plastic paper-case placed on the low-table in front of listening sofa for my wife's, son's, daughter's and grandchildren's easy and in-order start-up/ignition and shut down; they can always do them flawlessly.
My wife doesn't have the patience to go through a step by step process to bring music or movies to our home.
For my 2 channel system I had to design my sequencer program so that after the press of a button on the iPad the entire power up or power down sequence was automated. She was still annoyed by the dozen or so seconds it took between the first button press and the entire system being powered up.
For our home theater a Savant control system handles all the sequencing, including waiting for HDMI handshakes.
Thank you for your kind and encouraging words and comments.
I never concerned about "win" and/or "loose", however, but I just would like to protect/preserve my total audio (-visual) setup ensuring my daily music listening enjoyments.
Of course, I clearly print the sequences on both side of a paper and put it in a clear plastic paper-case placed on the low-table in front of listening sofa for my wife's, son's, daughter's and grandchildren's easy and in-order start-up/ignition and shut down; they can always do them flawlessly.
