Separates vs Integrated

[wgb113]

Going back to a more traditional setup from active speakers to passive speakers + amplification. Budget is $10K total so I'm trying to decide whether to go with separates on the amplification side and I'm having trouble deciding.

Sources are:

• Mac Mini running Roon
• Cambridge Audio CXC to RME ADI-2 DAC FS
• Technics SL-1200GR to PS Audio NuWave Phono Converter

I use the ADC in the latter to copy albums to the Mac for syncing with my iPhone and to stream around the house to other systems via Roon.

The plan is to go with 3-way floorstanders and start with 2 subs and potentially go to as many as 4 if needed to tame the bass.

Something as simple as the NAD M33 is very tempting as is their C658/C298 combo but both seem to be plagued with various bugs that eventually get addressed with firmware updates but I could see that getting annoying rather quickly. It seems they're trying to cram too much into one (or two) boxes that just aren't ready for prime time.

On the power side if I went separate I'd like stick to a stereo amplifier with my budget. The only option I've considered are Schiit monoblocks or two Parasound A23+ instead of one A21+.

On the "preamp" side it seems to be a choice between "tick all of the boxes, even ones I might not need" or "source selector + gain". That NAD C658 for instance again has a lot going for it in terms of features but performance and real-world feedback leave me underwhelmed. On the opposite end of the spectrum would be something like the Schiit Freya (S preferably if I can find one used).

In terms of integrated amps there seems to be a little more of a spread regarding features when you look at what's available from the likes of NAD, Rotel, Parasound, Hegel, etc. The question there goes back to the questions from a preamp standpoint - already having a nice DAC and phono preamp could I just add bass management/DRC through a miniDSP to something more basic like a used McIntosh integrated?

Speakers are pretty much decided on: a floorstander from KEF R series (leaning towards R11) with subs being a pair of SVS PB-1000 Pros.

 

[Kachda]

If going for an integrated solution, I think the M33 would be great, or the M10 for lower power but half the cost. The best part of NAD products I think is the Bluesound app that makes controlling it and streaming quite simple from the phone.

If going separates, you can consider the miniDSP SHD if you are interested in having room correction with DIRAC along with pre-amp functionality all for about $1100. The NAD C658 was found to poor performance when reviewed by Amir (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/nad-c658-streaming-dac-review.12090/). Maybe they have been fixed now, I don't know.

For power amplifier, I'd rather go with a Hypex or Purifi based setup. There are a few people who post on this forum (Buckeye) assembling it in the US. You can also consider March Audio (from where I got my amp) in Australia, or Europe based builders like Nord or Apollon.

 

[wgb113]

I had a miniDSP DDRC-24 and wasn't thrilled with their application so at this point the SHD is on my "B list". With regards to the boutique Class D guys I'd rather go with a well established company that's likely to be around. No offense to those guys as it appears they're making great measuring gear.

So I've gone with the KEF R11 as the speaker and expanded my list of separates to:

• NAD M12 & M22v2
• NAD C658 & C298
• Parasound P6 & A21+
• Parasound P6 & A23+ (dual run mono)
• Rotel RC-1590 & RB-1590
• Rotel RC-1590 & RB-1582mkII

And integrated amps to:

• Anthem STR
• Marantz Model 30
• Michi X3
• McIntosh MA7000 (used)
• NAD M33
• Parasound HINT 6
• Rotel RA-1592mkII

I've considered other offerings from Arcam, Benchmark, Cambridge, Denon, Hegel, Luxman, Schiit and Yamaha but at this point they're all on the "B team" as well since they're missing some of the functionality others have.

New room is 14' x 15' x 9' and the speakers will be along the (slightly) longer wall.

If anyone has any experience with these options please chime in with your experiences. Now the research begins...

 

[RealityCheck18]

amp/pre VS integrated...

First up, delete the audiophile foo about "packing too much stuff in a box"--that made sense 50 years ago but not a factor now IF properly designed.

Personally, if I was going to lay out 4 figures for something, I'd go seperates because it allows for more flexibility and can scale up when/if required. Think 3 years from now, some new audio thing catches your eye and your pre-amp does not have that function, you have the option to swap out the pre with another processor pre. The all-in-one boxes lose in that game, some of them have pre-amp ins but you get the idea. Sell off the pre-amp processor and upgrade for the win.

On the amp side, amps are a mature tech thing for the most part so will last at least 20 years or longer. Preamp processors? Well, that depends but at least you can run the amp until it dies. You also can upgrade or add more amps if/when required. Always nice to have options, flexibility and get the processor you want, the amp power you desire and not be required to use the same brand. Although some consumer audio folks consider that an act of heresy, it is common in pro audio so you can mix and match to whatever you want.

I run an AVR in my house and "seperates" out in the garage. Each one has it's use as I use the right tool for the job. Hope that helps!

 

[SimpleTheater]

On the power side if I went separate I'd like stick to a stereo amplifier with my budget. The only option I've considered are Schiit monoblocks or two Parasound A23+ instead of one A21+.

For power, at the $3k price point, I wouldn't get anything but the Benchmark AHB2. Amir gushed over it like no other amp he's ever tested, and with the specs it has, I can't imagine ever needing another amp for stereo. My only regret is I bought my Yamaha A-S2100 prior to joining ASR.

 

[Midwest Blade]

Boy - I would love to have an A-S2100.

 

[wgb113]

For power, at the $3k price point, I wouldn't get anything but the Benchmark AHB2. Amir gushed over it like no other amp he's ever tested, and with the specs it has, I can't imagine ever needing another amp for stereo. My only regret is I bought my Yamaha A-S2100 prior to joining ASR.

I've considered it but I'm concerned about how it would match up with the KEFs as they dip below 4ohms to a low of 3.2. Some have mentioned the Benchmark as not sounding it's best with real-world hard-to-drive speaker loads.

 

[UCrazyKid]

I like separates. I am a believer that power supplies are very important, so the more the better and in separate cases is better. I also see a benefit of your NOT needing a DAC as there are lots of fantastic older (last 5-20 years) gear that just does traditional analog signal amplification that you can pick up at great prices. Even if buying new now, I would avoid gear with a built in DAC, streamer, etc. as the technology is still changing so fast and I wouldn't want to get stuck with it. Shop www.hifishark.com or The Music Room or SkyFi Audio, etc.