Sennheiser HD800S Review (Headphone)

[Chagall]

Are all open back headphones as loud as these are to other people in the area? My family can still hear them from time to time. Maybe I need close back, but I like the sound from the 800s much more than my Noire X.

I do listen at fairly high volume...

If leakage is only a minor nuisance, I would stick with open-backs as closed-backs tend to have more issues. Percived sound and frequency response depend heavily on the seal you get on your head, so choosing them isn’t as straightforward as with open-backs.

The upside of isolation is that it can reduce listening levels, and people around you won't hear your music leaking out as much. If that matters to you, I would recommend doing plenty of research into closed-backs before buying and don't sleep on something like Audeze Maxwell just because it's a wireless gaming headphone.

 

[threni]

it's possible to have natural peaks and troughs at certain frequencies in your hearing that might even be specific to one ear or the other, so if that's the case then you probably wouldn't want to correct for it in headphones. So you can't assume it's a headphone quirk or fault, it might just be your ears.

That sounds exactly like something I'd want to fix. Why wouldn't you?

 

[Robbo99999]

That sounds exactly like something I'd want to fix. Why wouldn't you?

If you've got natural peaks or troughs in your hearing then you wouldn't correct for those natural characteristics in headphones because your brain adapts to those natural characteristics as you go about your daily life - trying to "fix" them in headphones could make it sound unnatural or inaccurate to you. A few years ago I found out I had a large boost in my hearing between 8-12kHz which I had initially (once) tried to compensate for by creating a pretty large negative peak filter in that area - at the time I didn't realise I had a natural boost to my hearing in that zone, so I had been listening to sine tones and EQ'd down that area to make it roughly similar to the surrounding area, but upon listening to headphones with this EQ it sounded a bit like my head was in a bucket, lol! I talked to Oratory about this at the time, because I was in contact with him at the time sending him headphones to measure, and he said you've just found out you shouldn't correct for natural differences in your hearing - whether it be age related hearing loss or just some unusual quirks where you perceive some frequencies louder than others (beyond the normal Fletcher Munson curves, and you shouldn't even correct for those). It was only when I listened to sine sweeps/tones on my Anechoic Flat speakers that I realised I have this strange quirk to my hearing, so you don't correct for it.

 

[JoelDollie]

As long as you know you don't have a natural dip in your hearing there then that's ok.....but as you say you found recently that above 6kHz you're getting some variance with headphone placement on your head, so you might have already reassessed if your 8.5kHz large "channel balance" EQ filter is valid or not.

It varies but not that much, impossible to get the right side louder than the left at 8.5k with my settings. What can vary is that sometimes the edges of that boost, so around 8 or around 9 can be very slightly right, but this is nothing compared to the almost isolated left I had at 8.5k

The result is that there's almost no way I can wear these headphones and have a worse balance than what I had without EQ. It's pretty crazy and I recommend everybody to just dual mono sweep their headphones, notice the panning deviations and try to fix the channel imbalance (or ear quirks). The experience is much closer to monitors.

I'm not sure this is gonna work as well on other headphones but I think it works on HD800S because the drivers are quite far from the ears.

 

[Robbo99999]

It varies but not that much, impossible to get the right side louder than the left at 8.5k with my settings. What can vary is that sometimes the edges of that boost, so around 8 or around 9 can be very slightly right, but this is nothing compared to the almost isolated left I had at 8.5k

The result is that there's almost no way I can wear these headphones and have a worse balance than what I had without EQ. It's pretty crazy and I recommend everybody to just dual mono sweep their headphones, notice the panning deviations and try to fix the channel imbalance (or ear quirks). The experience is much closer to monitors.

I'm not sure this is gonna work as well on other headphones but I think it works on HD800S because the drivers are quite far from the ears.

Did you try playing an 8.5kHz sine tone on your speakers but with really going to town to block your left ear praps with an earplug and then maybe over ear sound protection combined for that left ear (so you take the left ear out of the equation). Well actually you'd play a sweep slowly through that 8.5kHz from below to above and see how your right ear hears that from the Anechoic speakers. It seems very strange to just have a really large dip there in the headphones in just one ear. I'm kind of expecting you to have a real dip in your hearing in your right ear at 8.5kHz.

 

[JoelDollie]

Did you try playing an 8.5kHz sine tone on your speakers but with really going to town to block your left ear praps with an earplug and then maybe over ear sound protection combined for that left ear (so you take the left ear out of the equation). Well actually you'd play a sweep slowly through that 8.5kHz from below to above and see how your right ear hears that from the Anechoic speakers. It seems very strange to just have a really large dip there in the headphones in just one ear. I'm kind of expecting you to have a real dip in your hearing in your right ear at 8.5kHz.

100% certain it's not my ear. Sweeped on IEMs which had other balance issues but nothing at 8.5k, and my speakers.

Besides, just Google frequency response graphs of the HD800S and you will see wild dips. Probably a result of the driver/ear system.

 

[Chagall]

Hey all, I created an account on ASR just to share how to ''Fixed'' my HD800S to sound as neutral and accurate as possible. Matched to Kii Three.

I believe that headphone measurements and target curves are a bit all over the place and that unlike speakers, they aren't super reliable, so I just did it by ear, comparing to my Kii Threes in a really accurate studio. Couple details I didn't mention in the video:

I EQ'd these to my Kii three with a house curve, a little bit tilted like most engineers would have, with an extra ''Toole esque'' bass boost. My monitors IN ROOM response is about +6db in the bass and -1.5db at 20k.

I didn't boost the 30hz as much as would normally be needed because I don't think the 800S drivers and even produce that reliably and the overall result doesn't seem that great, I think it's just boosting too much above where it can actually produce these frequencies, so I settled for 6db.

In some tracks the HD800S still feel sharper than my speakers, in some tracks maybe a tiny bit less, this is due to the highs being very random and dippy on headphones, I think that depending on the tracks, some elements might land on ''holes'' in the frequency response or on peaks, so in the gend I kinda went for an average, not trying to go into crazy detail so that this can actually translate decently for many people.

Oh and also after publishing this video I went and fixed my own pair, as either driver mismatching was hardcore or it's just my ear shape but almost no matter how I put them in my head I had dramatic reduction at 8.5k in the right ear.

If you are confident in that, I recommend sine sweeping in dual mono and experimenting with left/right EQ. My phantom center went back to dead center, it's actually eerie. I knew for years that everything was leaning left, actually in blind tests I was panning things 6% too much on the right to compensate. I wish I EQ'd sooner. Now these treble moves will be highly personal so I recommend just sticking to the yellow curve for most people. Sine sweeping and double checking if these moves ''remove'' dips for you is also a great way to double check. I'm pretty confident this curve will work for most people.

View attachment 502647

Can you please post the values for EQAPO?

 

[Robert Weide]

Hey all, I created an account on ASR just to share how to ''Fixed'' my HD800S to sound as neutral and accurate as possible. Matched to Kii Three.

I believe that headphone measurements and target curves are a bit all over the place and that unlike speakers, they aren't super reliable, so I just did it by ear, comparing to my Kii Threes in a really accurate studio. Couple details I didn't mention in the video:

I EQ'd these to my Kii three with a house curve, a little bit tilted like most engineers would have, with an extra ''Toole esque'' bass boost. My monitors IN ROOM response is about +6db in the bass and -1.5db at 20k.

I didn't boost the 30hz as much as would normally be needed because I don't think the 800S drivers and even produce that reliably and the overall result doesn't seem that great, I think it's just boosting too much above where it can actually produce these frequencies, so I settled for 6db.

In some tracks the HD800S still feel sharper than my speakers, in some tracks maybe a tiny bit less, this is due to the highs being very random and dippy on headphones, I think that depending on the tracks, some elements might land on ''holes'' in the frequency response or on peaks, so in the gend I kinda went for an average, not trying to go into crazy detail so that this can actually translate decently for many people.

Oh and also after publishing this video I went and fixed my own pair, as either driver mismatching was hardcore or it's just my ear shape but almost no matter how I put them in my head I had dramatic reduction at 8.5k in the right ear.

If you are confident in that, I recommend sine sweeping in dual mono and experimenting with left/right EQ. My phantom center went back to dead center, it's actually eerie. I knew for years that everything was leaning left, actually in blind tests I was panning things 6% too much on the right to compensate. I wish I EQ'd sooner. Now these treble moves will be highly personal so I recommend just sticking to the yellow curve for most people. Sine sweeping and double checking if these moves ''remove'' dips for you is also a great way to double check. I'm pretty confident this curve will work for most people.

View attachment 502647

Thanks, interesting video. Tried to play around with the 3350Hz and 5685Hz peak and they proved to be more effective than my current EQ. My base EQ gain is not quite intense so +2 db at 3350Hz is good enough.

 

[Chagall]

Can you please post the values for EQAPO?

Ok, I've figured it out. Q needs to be devided by 1.41 to get values for EQAPO, Peace, Roon.
It's a nice tonality. Warmer and weightier than Oratory's preset, although midbass becomes a bit muddy on certain songs, but nothing one more band can't fix.
@JoelDollie Thanks!

 

[Robbo99999]

100% certain it's not my ear. Sweeped on IEMs which had other balance issues but nothing at 8.5k, and my speakers.

Besides, just Google frequency response graphs of the HD800S and you will see wild dips. Probably a result of the driver/ear system.

As long as your speakers aren't showing a dip at 8.5kHz then it's not your hearing, but you would have to totally block up your left ear to do that experiment and I don't know if you did that.

 

[JoelDollie]

Ok, I've figured it out. Q needs to be devided by 1.41 to get values for EQAPO, Peace, Roon.
It's a nice tonality. Warmer and weightier than Oratory's preset, although midbass becomes a bit muddy on certain songs, but nothing one more band can't fix.
@JoelDollie Thanks!

Amazing I was wondering why the Q's didn't match. Thanks for the info.

I spent a bit more time on it, this is even more accurate.

Here's the latest ''allaround'' preset. For the 6.8,9.7 and 8.9k, you have to adjust yourselves and figure out the resonance points which may vary slightly, or just discard them.

Recovering these massive nulls IS WORTH IT and actually works, unless you wear your headphones in an awkward position it's consistent.

I increased the high mid peak slightly. I know it might feel like a lot for long time HD800S users but it actually even needs an extra db compared to this, technically. In a perfect world you need to feel this increase in power at 3k. and no dip whatsoever going into 3.5k. then from 3.5 to 5k a very slight decrease but it should be smooth and linear.

Remember that it's fairly narrow, I'm boosting more 3.5 than 3. Find the deepest point of your natural dip on the HD800S and put the center frequency of that boost there. Double check all the higher moves with a sine sweep with no EQ first to find the exact center frequencies of the other moves, but you will probably find them quite close.

It always feels weird and dark at first but after spending a little while with that, turn off your EQ, actually do this experience with white noise too. When turning off the EQ it goes from ''normal'' to weird metallic and highy resonant.

It's simple, if you feel less massive dips during sine sweeps after the EQ, that means your experience is more neutral, and honestly everything you play through it sounds way better. The only risk is getting the center frequencies wrong on the treble stuff.

Your ear will adapt to anything and most headphones are even more messed up in the mids and highs, sine sweeps show the flaws. You should not have any perceived dips whatsoever apart from the 3k peak that any flat system should have..

The HD800s are extremely linear from 200hz to 1k. This sort of linearity is what you're looking for from 4k to 10k. Try it out and you will realize how messed up the highs actually are

I think our ears just ''ignore'' these dips. Thankfully, just like room frequency response, or like the PSY smoothing in room EQ wizard.

Channel: ALL
Filter: ON PK Fc 40 Hz Gain 5.9 dB Q 0.61
Filter: ON PK Fc 62 Hz Gain 1.3 dB Q 2.3
Filter: ON PK Fc 2793 Hz Gain -2.6 dB Q 3
Filter: ON PK Fc 600 Hz Gain -0.8 dB Q 0.7
Filter: ON PK Fc 1280 Hz Gain 0.7 dB Q 2.4
Filter: ON PK Fc 2067.6 Hz Gain 1.1 dB Q 4.3
Filter: ON PK Fc 3500.6 Hz Gain 5.8 dB Q 2.1
Filter: ON PK Fc 4041 Hz Gain -0.5 dB Q 3
Filter: ON PK Fc 4990 Hz Gain 1.7 dB Q 4
Filter: ON PK Fc 5581 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 3.5
Filter: ON PK Fc 6860 Hz Gain -2.3 dB Q 4.7
Filter: ON PK Fc 8900 Hz Gain -1.8 dB Q 6
Filter: ON PK Fc 9735 Hz Gain 4.3 dB Q 4.5
Filter: ON HSC 12 dB Fc 7000 Hz Gain -2.1 dB

 

[JoelDollie]

Thanks, interesting video. Tried to play around with the 3350Hz and 5685Hz peak and they proved to be more effective than my current EQ. My base EQ gain is not quite intense so +2 db at 3350Hz is good enough.

Completely fine, although with such a small move it's likely you will still feel like the sine power decreases slightly in the high mids when sweeping, and it should never do that IF the goal is to get them as neutral as possible - it's where the ear is most sensitive. But maybe you don't want these to sound as close as possible to studio monitors and that's completely valid. They do have a bit of a silky ''audiophile'' sound signature with sharp highs and recessed high mids by default

Just not enough bass, that's kind of no excuse in any genre or for any target customer base imho. But that's probably as far as they could go without DSP.

 

[JoelDollie]

As long as your speakers aren't showing a dip at 8.5kHz then it's not your hearing, but you would have to totally block up your left ear to do that experiment and I don't know if you did that.

Yep did just now for my sanity: Both speakers active at 8500, one full concert ear plug in one ear, turning my head from left to right at the sweet spot, listening to both speakers at once, head movement to account for room reflection randomness. Exact same sound power.

On headphone with no EQ feels like panning at 80% left. Can confirm the HD800 drivers or the combo driver+ear proximity do some random stuff.

 

[dra1n bama9e]

@JoelDollie can you double check the High-Shelf filter?
Is it at 7000Hz with -2.1 dB gain? And what is the Q value?
Thanks!

 

[Chagall]

@JoelDollie can you double check the High-Shelf filter?
Is it at 7000Hz with -2.1 dB gain? And what is the Q value?
Thanks!

I don't think Fabfilter has a variable shelf Q filter, but it's default fixed value is 1. That would mean 0.71 in APO or Roon. However, you don't need to follow the preset to the letter if you feel you need a bit more air or even if you need less. For example Oratory has a 1dB boost at 9kHz.

 

[JoelDollie]

I don't think Fabfilter has a variable shelf Q filter, but it's default fixed value is 1. That would mean 0.71 in APO or Roon. However, you don't need to follow the preset to the letter if you feel you need a bit more air or even if you need less. For example Oratory has a 1dB boost at 9kHz.

After talking to various people about all this, it's pretty random above 4k. the general quantity of high highs should always be too much on the HD800S Globally, on average. I think that's the general sentiment, a bit too much high treble.... but everybody will have wildly different resonances, if you can address them consistently do it, otherwise leave them be and just lower the highs slightly I would say.

 

[Robbo99999]

Amazing I was wondering why the Q's didn't match. Thanks for the info.

I spent a bit more time on it, this is even more accurate.

Here's the latest ''allaround'' preset. For the 6.8,9.7 and 8.9k, you have to adjust yourselves and figure out the resonance points which may vary slightly, or just discard them.

Recovering these massive nulls IS WORTH IT and actually works, unless you wear your headphones in an awkward position it's consistent.

I increased the high mid peak slightly. I know it might feel like a lot for long time HD800S users but it actually even needs an extra db compared to this, technically. In a perfect world you need to feel this increase in power at 3k. and no dip whatsoever going into 3.5k. then from 3.5 to 5k a very slight decrease but it should be smooth and linear.

Remember that it's fairly narrow, I'm boosting more 3.5 than 3. Find the deepest point of your natural dip on the HD800S and put the center frequency of that boost there. Double check all the higher moves with a sine sweep with no EQ first to find the exact center frequencies of the other moves, but you will probably find them quite close.

It always feels weird and dark at first but after spending a little while with that, turn off your EQ, actually do this experience with white noise too. When turning off the EQ it goes from ''normal'' to weird metallic and highy resonant.

It's simple, if you feel less massive dips during sine sweeps after the EQ, that means your experience is more neutral, and honestly everything you play through it sounds way better. The only risk is getting the center frequencies wrong on the treble stuff.

Your ear will adapt to anything and most headphones are even more messed up in the mids and highs, sine sweeps show the flaws. You should not have any perceived dips whatsoever apart from the 3k peak that any flat system should have..

The HD800s are extremely linear from 200hz to 1k. This sort of linearity is what you're looking for from 4k to 10k. Try it out and you will realize how messed up the highs actually are

I think our ears just ''ignore'' these dips. Thankfully, just like room frequency response, or like the PSY smoothing in room EQ wizard.

Channel: ALL
Filter: ON PK Fc 40 Hz Gain 5.9 dB Q 0.61
Filter: ON PK Fc 62 Hz Gain 1.3 dB Q 2.3
Filter: ON PK Fc 2793 Hz Gain -2.6 dB Q 3
Filter: ON PK Fc 600 Hz Gain -0.8 dB Q 0.7
Filter: ON PK Fc 1280 Hz Gain 0.7 dB Q 2.4
Filter: ON PK Fc 2067.6 Hz Gain 1.1 dB Q 4.3
Filter: ON PK Fc 3500.6 Hz Gain 5.8 dB Q 2.1
Filter: ON PK Fc 4041 Hz Gain -0.5 dB Q 3
Filter: ON PK Fc 4990 Hz Gain 1.7 dB Q 4
Filter: ON PK Fc 5581 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 3.5
Filter: ON PK Fc 6860 Hz Gain -2.3 dB Q 4.7
Filter: ON PK Fc 8900 Hz Gain -1.8 dB Q 6
Filter: ON PK Fc 9735 Hz Gain 4.3 dB Q 4.5
Filter: ON HSC 12 dB Fc 7000 Hz Gain -2.1 dB

View attachment 503384

I've said this before, I want people to know that they can't assume they don't have natural peaks and troughs in their hearing, I do for instance, so you need to be testing with Anechoic speakers to make sure you know if you do have peaks or troughs. Also EQ'ing out the peaks and troughs whilst listening to sine sweeps is not a guaranteed good result, there's more to the tonality of a headphone than that. I think most people benefit more easily from using an EQ based on measurements like those that we do here on ASR & Oratory for instance.

 

[Robbo99999]

Yep did just now for my sanity: Both speakers active at 8500, one full concert ear plug in one ear, turning my head from left to right at the sweet spot, listening to both speakers at once, head movement to account for room reflection randomness. Exact same sound power.

On headphone with no EQ feels like panning at 80% left. Can confirm the HD800 drivers or the combo driver+ear proximity do some random stuff.

Ok, good.

 

[JoelDollie]

I don't think Fabfilter has a variable shelf Q filter, but it's default fixed value is 1. That would mean 0.71 in APO or Roon. However, you don't need to follow the preset to the letter if you feel you need a bit more air or even if you need less. For example Oratory has a 1dB boost at 9kHz.

I went way too deep into this. The preset is about right until 4k. It's completely random afterwards. Well which is why I just did a shelf in that preset which is better than nothing. I don't think the oratory preset will work with that 9k boost for everybody.

One of my HD800S buddy (trained engineer too) has a 7k boost instead of a 7k dip. Since we're both used to hearing 0.5db or less differences I'll say this isn't a fluke, as I clearly have a 3db ish dip at 7k, it's completely the other way around for him.

And guess what with a measurement mic (one for speakers) the highs do not show ANY dips or peaks. The highs kinda creep up and stay flat ish. All these narrow dips and peaks are purely HRTF and are completely random.

My shelf is an attempt to make the HD800S peaks less tiring. th GLOBAL amount of highs is too much due to these peaks. But the ideal scenario is not shelfing and notching down your own personal resonances one by one, I did that successfully and my high mids and highs are now basically as flat as the 200-1k. Actually gorgeous, like flat monitors.


You can sweep 200-1k and you will hear this range dead flat and this is valid for everybody's ears.
Above 4k it's fully random. So I'll say there are two solutions

1: Going into the rabbit hole of finding the resonances (please ensure your hearing is actually flat before if possible on speakers, like Robbo said.
2: don't bother and maybe just keep a bit of a shelf to bring back the HD800S to HD600 levels.