Sennheiser HD800S Review (Headphone)

[Pearljam5000]

None .... but with some EQ you can probably get close to the tonal balance of a HD800S (or any other headphone).
Then the question pops up to whose ears or what test fixture and using which target.
The second question would be in which room the speakers will be used to compare the sound to.
So hence the answer .. none.

The only thing speakers and headphones have in common is that they are used for listening to music.

I guess what I'm looking for the most is the layering, crazy instrument separation and clarity that the HD800 have
But maybe that's impossible

 

[Chagall]

I guess what I'm looking for the most is the layering, crazy instrument separation and clarity that the HD800 have
But maybe that's impossible

In my opinion, the level of clarity and stereo separation you get with headphones just isn’t possible with speakers in an average living room. Unless you put in a lot of work with room treatment and DSP correction. Maybe nearfield listening can get you close, since it takes the room mostly out of the equation.

Think about how much math and precision goes into creating a closed-back or an open-back headphone cup. Do we really put that same care into setting up our rooms?

 

[solderdude]

I guess what I'm looking for the most is the layering, crazy instrument separation and clarity that the HD800 have
But maybe that's impossible

Eelectrostatic speakers with a narrow beam are probably closest to the HD800S in that regard.

 

[gorman]

The second question would be in which room the speakers will be used to compare the sound to.

I think this is probably the first question, not even the second...

 

[Westsounds]

What speakers sound the closest to HD800S?

No speakers come close to the detail and resolution direct to the ear as with the 800s. You might get something that'll tonally get near, and as solderdude said with a bit of EQ you could get a match. Don't expect them to be in the ballpark as the HD800S's in terms of anything. I have never heard any speaker that can match this headphone for low level detail retrieval, layering of sound and instrument / vocal separation within the recording like these headphones, I've never heard another headphone to do it either, but speakers forget it. There are some very nice speakers out there and plenty to choose from that'll satisfy though.

 

[Robbo99999]

Look for a speaker system with the following in-room response:
View attachment 445986 View attachment 445987

You can find PIRs of many loudspeakers here: https://www.spinorama.org/

I think I know what you did here, are those graphs showing the deviation between HD800s stock frequency response and B&K Harman Curve? Wouldn't the HD800s be lower on base if that were the case though. EDIT: ah, yes, in room response, so that's showing low bass vs in room speaker response. So it's the difference between HD800s and Harman B&K applied to ideal Harman in room speaker response?

 

[staticV3]

are those graphs showing the deviation between HD800s stock frequency response and B&K Harman Curve?

The graphs are showing the HD800S' DF-compensated frequency response on a B&K 5128.

Such measurements can be read just like in-room loudspeaker response measurements, making them ideal for matching tonality between headphones and speakers.

E.g. the frequency response of a neutral headphone will appear just like the response of a neutral loudspeaker system.
Linear, with a gentle downward slope, and a mild bass shelf.

 

[Robbo99999]

The graphs are showing the HD800S' DF-compensated frequency response on a B&K 5128.

Such measurements can be read just like in-room loudspeaker response measurements, making them ideal for matching tonality between headphones and speakers.

E.g. the frequency response of a neutral headphone will appear just like the response of a neutral loudspeaker system.
Linear, with a gentle downward slope, and a mild bass shelf.

Yep, I see what you mean. That does assume though that Diffuse Field with minus 10dB tilt on B&K sounds like speakers in terms of tonality which is open to debate I suppose. For instance the Headphone Harman Curve 2018 that we use here on ASR is not a direct translation of such. How much difference is there between B&K Harman Headphone Curve and B&K Diffuse Field minus 10dB tilt target curve for instance?

 

[staticV3]

How much difference is there between B&K Harman Headphone Curve and B&K Diffuse Field minus 10dB tilt target curve for instance?

Hard to say since officially, Harman keep their 5128 target under NDA.

 

[Robbo99999]

Hard to say since officially, Harman keep their 5128 target under NDA.

Another standard that could have been chosen for your calculation is the Harman 2013 Over Ear target as when I looked into that it's an almost exact representation of the slope of the All Listeners (black solid line) in first graph below applied to the Harman dummy head measured at ear drum flat in room response which is 2nd graph below. I know Harman didn't supposedly create the Harman 2013 Target by applying that slope that I've just mentioned but it's an almost exact match, so I've always thought of the 2013 Harman Curve as the most neutral headphone target curve, even if I don't think it's the most preferred one for people (including myself, I prefer the 2018). Blue line in 3rd graph below is Harman 2013.

Different Harman Curves:

 

[Westsounds]

I guess what I'm looking for the most is the layering, crazy instrument separation and clarity that the HD800 have
But maybe that's impossible

I’d say yes, it’s impossible from a set of speakers.

I've heard possibly some of the best speakers on the planet, that is all subjective anyway. If a speaker covers the frequency spectrum clearly within audible range and are good quality speaker drivers, then that’s taken as a done. Everything else is a preference. But I have heard a lot, big horns, some of the biggest studio professional monitors and high-end designs. Nothing comes close to the detail retrieval of the 800’s close to your ears, so they are just in a different league in that respect. The same for separation of instruments, low level detail, and layering within the mix. It really is astounding what they separate and their ability to do that. I have never heard any other audio component to do as the HD800S does, and I’ve owned lots of good headphones as well, ‘audiophile’ and ‘studio’ cans.

When you lived with the 800’s for a while you just think right, that’s it, there’s nothing better regardless of what thrills are added now from other cans or cost. Speakers are just crap in comparison I say that tongue in cheek because I love speakers, owned hundreds! But they’re all just effects boxes really, some you dig, others you don’t do as much. They all do something different. And speakers can move much more air or, objects, or even walls . And are generally more physical in nature, which headphones won't do really, unless they’re haptic ones like skull crushers gimmick ones. Speakers can create that real in room sound I suppose better than headphones, but if you are listening critically deep in the mix, nothing comes close the best headphones, and since owning them, the HD800S are the pinnacle of that. I’ve said it before, these are a microscope or a flashlight into and on the recording. They actually sound ok to me as well enjoymentwise, they give it to you in an audiophile way. That to me anyway doesn’t make music sound bad like some ‘studio’ stuff can do. I still like to EQ them to my preference though. That way, I enjoy them more. And there’s still better headphones at much lesser cost as well which will do bass better, again though it’s a personal preference. I can listen without EQ and still appreciate them but why, I like a signature / presentation I like to listen to, to get the most ‘enjoyment’ out of music.

I don’t claim to have superior hearing to anyone either, but for the record, I did get my hearing tested because I thought I had some ‘issues’. Well it turns out the audiologist said I measured as the best he’s had all week, that’s in comparison to what he had that week obviously. Can't claim to be a winner in a one horse race It’s not super human it’s just a good healthy set of ears. Wish I could say the same for my eyesight it's useless I can’t spot or make out hardly anything long distance unaided, I’d be a useless witness, need 20/20 for that But ears are all good.

 

[TA21]

What speakers sound the closest to HD800S?

Headphones and speakers are doing different things in different contexts. Headphones shoot sound directly into each ear, bypassing the room and your ear anatomy that affects how you hear sounds from out in the world. Headphone frequency responses are not flat, but have that big 3kHz bump to replicate how your ear anatomy naturally amplifies those frequencies when you hear sounds from out in the world. Speakers you listen from nine feet way, with room reflections, and each ear hears what the other ear hears with a time difference.

Many headphones with a large soundstage, like the HD800S and HiFiMan headphones, have a dip in the midrange frequencies (sounds farther away) and are bright in the treble (sounds closer). This gives your brain the sense of things being farther away, and a feeling of space. A headphone without that midrange dip may be more "neutral," but that makes things more forward and in your face.

If you listened to speakers in a room with a midrange dip, and bright treble, like in headphones that do a large soundstage, you would think the frequency response was wacky and off. With speakers, you don't use frequency dips and peaks as cues for space. You are listening to sound coming from nine feet away, the room reflections help create a sense of space, and your ears hearing the direct and reflected sounds with a time difference give you spacial cues. Your speaker placement helps create soundstage and depth, and to some degree layering and separation in that soundstage: how far you pull the speakers away from back and side walls, your amount of toe-in, your room's characteristics.

With speakers, if you set them up well in a room, you can get a holographic, 3D image laid out in front of you. You get a different sense of images being in their distinct space in that space, versus on headphones where images are bunched up near your head and need more etched boundaries to separate them.

Speakers will not have as much detail as you get from headphones or IEMs. Headphones are shooting sound directly into your ears, versus speakers being nine feet away with room reflections added to the mix. However, speakers in a room can add a lot of things headphones can't, which adds to the sense of liveliness and realism, that makes up for the lesser detail. Think about it this way: when you go to a live concert, you are mostly hearing the sound in mono, and it's not as detailed as listening to a recording of that concert over headhpones. But the sound bouncing off all walls of the venue gives you a strong sense of liveliness and realism, even if you can't pinpoint where instruments are on stage by sound alone. On headphones, you need the detail, stereo soundstage, layering and separation to give you a (differently presented) sense of realism.

 

[djsolidsnake86]

im undecided between hd800s and shure 1840,someone has both and can do a comparation? thanks

i actually use a hd660s and i dont like the dark signature with the sennheiser veil, also hd800s has this sound signature?

 

[Brian Hall]

im undecided between hd800s and shure 1840,someone has both and can do a comparation? thanks

i actually use a hd660s and i dont like the dark signature with the sennheiser veil, also hd800s has this sound signature?

I've never heard the HD660s. I don't think anyone who has heard the HD800s would ever say they have a dark signature and I would never associate veiled with them. The HD800s sounds wide and detailed. I'm satisfied with the bass. Others say they lack bass.

What does dark signature even mean? Veiled sounds like it means part of the sound is being blocked or hidden.

 

[djsolidsnake86]

I've never heard the HD660s. I don't think anyone who has heard the HD800s would ever say they have a dark signature and I would never associate veiled with them. The HD800s sounds wide and detailed. I'm satisfied with the bass. Others say they lack bass.

What does dark signature even mean? Veiled sounds like it means part of the sound is being blocked or hidden.

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/ascj1g/my_hd660s_sound_very_dull_and_veiled_compared_to

 

[phoenixsong]

im undecided between hd800s and shure 1840,someone has both and can do a comparation? thanks

i actually use a hd660s and i dont like the dark signature with the sennheiser veil, also hd800s has this sound signature?

I've heard both a long time ago, the SRH1840 wasn't notable enough for me to remember anything about it at this point (I do remember somewhat liking the SRH1540 beside it but thinking it was a little too laid-back sounding). You wouldn't find the HD800S dark/veiled amongst Sennheiser headphones unless you're used to the original HD800. If you want a headphone with an impressive soundstage, the HD800S is still one of the best choices in the current world

 

[djsolidsnake86]

I've heard both a long time ago, the SRH1840 wasn't notable enough for me to remember anything about it at this point (I do remember somewhat liking the SRH1540 beside it but thinking it was a little too laid-back sounding). You wouldn't find the HD800S dark/veiled amongst Sennheiser headphones unless you're used to the original HD800. If you want a headphone with an impressive soundstage, the HD800S is still one of the best choices in the current world

I found a used hd800 (non s version) for about 500 euro, is a good choice?

 

[solderdude]

With EQ, fresh headband and earpad padding and no paint flaking of the sides... sure.
Otherwise be prepared to buy new earpads and headband padding.

 

[djsolidsnake86]

With EQ, fresh headband and earpad padding and no paint flaking of the sides... sure.
Otherwise be prepared to buy new earpads and headband padding.

The equalization is mandatory?

 

[solderdude]

It is unless you like the sharpness/sibilance and the a bit subdued subbass and somewhat laid-back uppermids.